As Current Info Stands Who Will Be Lamer in SB, MNK or WHM?

[StarRosie]

wait, why is Monk being considered lame? i thought it looked great

Because it is not totally overhauling itself into ultra monk supreme +! turbo edition!

(Personally, I also think monk looks great and I'm excited to play it! Just the OF loves making mountains from mole hills.)

[Khaoticsuccubus]

Why would MNK be lame? It's more of the same plus extra utility. The changes to chakra look awesome and make it hella more useful.

Mnk didn't receive flashy wild new changes and abilities like other classes because Mnk has the smoothest and best gameplay of all the dps. The Mnk formula is pretty damn good as is, no need to fix what's not broke.

[MomoOG]

Interesting out look on MNK in this thread so far. Far contrast from multiple threads in dps forums where I don't think I've seen a positive remark about MNK changes.

Let the great debate continue!

[Silica-chan]

Considering how "bad" Astro and Machinist were at the beginning of HW were and how strong they become later on I doubt Monk and WHM will be unplayable for too long (if they'll ever be that way)

Not to long and we will see. I will stick to Monk no matter what

[Nihility]

afaik, people are just unhappy with the emphasis on shoudler tackle and the riddle skills post-6

while kind of forgetting all the QoL buffs, party utility, building for forbidden chakra passively, and monk being super strong to begin with

It's a fairly american thing to do to downplay all the good and exaggerate the bad, i think we get it from our politicians

[SpeckledBurd]

Friend of mine who mains Monk went in-depth on why the initial glance isn't... what it seemed.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...37#post4176837

As the one who wrote this essay on why Monk's new actions are varying levels of bad, I will say that White Mage definitely got the worse changes overall.

However, to those of you saying the Monk changes look fine/great, you're wrong.

Riddle of Fire's slow effect eliminates one of the core parts of Monk's design, its haste effect. It'd be a good DPS cooldown on Dragoon, Samurai or Warrior who are all about a slow build toward big hits. On Monk, which is all about medium strength hits at a constant fast pace, it just doesn't fit.

Riddle of Earth is an unnecessary extra button to Monk's kit to allow it to maintain its stacks through phase transitions. However, it won't work on phase transitions where you don't take unavoidable damage or ones where the time until the aoe is longer than the duration of GL3. Based on current fight design (and there's no reason this shouldn't be, Heavensward Design wasn't a huge departure from ARR's) this will be 95% of them. This is a wasted action that should have been something else and Perfect Balance's cooldown should have just been reduced to 90 seconds or so. In fact, the action with the same function on Samurai has a cooldown of 80 seconds, so it makes even less sense.

Tackle Mastery is garbage on the level of the Lilies, full stop. It was designed on the assumption that Monk's ever want to be out of Fists of Fire (we don't), and the effects of the Tackle are actively detrimental or useless. Earth Tackle moves the enemy out of a Monk's attack range, preventing us from DPSing it. Wind Tackle cuts the tackle's damage in half, but it gives us a second gap closer provided you don't switch back to Fists of Fire (which you will) or take more than 5 seconds before needing to use the gap closer again (which it probably will). That means it's a trait that functionally exists to add 30 potency to Shoulder Tackle, something they did for almost every Ninja and Dragoon GCD without using one of our new Traits.

Then all of our potencies ate a nerf equivalent to about 30-40 potency each, while Dragoon and Ninja saw uniform buffs.

Brotherhood and Deep Meditation are pretty good though, even if they could use a few tweaks.

[MomoOG]

Well maybe I should have clarified by what I meant as "lame". I was more thinking along the lines of uninspired/uninteresting as opposed to weak.

[Selova]

People seriously need to keep in mind that all of the info out on classes contained outdated information and mistranslated tooltips. I think it's a bit early to be making judgement passes on classes no one has even played yet.

[SpeckledBurd]

People seriously need to keep in mind that all of the info out on classes contained outdated information and mistranslated tooltips. I think it's a bit early to be making judgement passes on classes no one has even played yet.

It absolutely isn't, you don't necessarily need to have actually used the actions to know that the design behind the entire Lily System, Riddle of Earth, and Tackle Mastery is fundamentally broken at their core concepts. Riddle of Earth requires a DPS to be hit and assumes that Monk ever spends time out of Fists of Fire/attempts to incentivize leaving Fists of Fire by adding effects that are more detrimental than just the loss of damage from leaving Fists of Fire, meanwhile White Mage's lillies require using skills that you actually try and minimize the use of in most content. Designs for actions and traits like this is so bad to the point where it's arguably better to just scrap them rather than to tweak the numbers, but since they only actually received widespread feedback for these abilities two weeks before the game is going to launch, there isn't really any time for them to go back to the drawing board and give them worthwhile abilities like reworking how Lilies are acquired and giving White Mage Bravery as an action they can spend Lilies on or to replace Tackle Mastery with something like Positional Mastery and to replace Riddle of Earth with Hundred Fists or an actual attack rather than a Cool Down that belongs on a tank.

[AlphaDragoon]

Dark Knight should be in here too. Those three seem to definitely be the "losers" of Stormblood in terms of the Job balancing game.

As for which of the three got hosed the most, I'm leaning toward White Mage myself.