We're all DDs now >.>

[Gamer3427]

As someone who frequently plays SCH, and DPSs quite a bit, I can see both sides of this argument. Personally, I'm of the opinion though that you should DPS when you can, but never to the detriment of your healing. The problem is that the community values speed above all else, so they forget that a healer DPSing constantly means they're not healing. I'd always take a healer who never DPSs but keeps the party at full health over a healer that DPSs constantly and speeds up the run, but lets half the party nearly die before blowing all their cooldowns at once to bring everyone back up. I have been guilty of falling into the latter before, of course, but typically only in content I've healed plenty before and after I know the tank can handle the pulls they're doing long enough for me to get some spells off. If I'm in content I'm not as familiar with, or if I know that the tank is undergeared or bad, or that the boss is going to be doing heavy damage, you can bet that I'll stay out of Cleric Stance and stand there preparing to keep everyone healed up. If someone isn't comfortable DPSing as a non-DPS role, they shouldn't feel forced by their party members to do so......

Unfortunately, the mentality of the playerbase isn't going to change anytime soon, simply because there are less and less players who are playing for the content itself, and more and more are just playing for the "end goal" that you get when you beat the content. As a result, many just want to clear it quickly, even if it's to the detriment of both their experience in the run itself, and that of the party. To add to this, it seems like fewer and fewer players are actually willing to listen to the advice of others should they be doing something wrong in their role. This in turn means rather than the poorer or newer players improving, they're having to be carried, which in turn forces more Healer and Tank DPSing to be required rather than optional. Of course, it isn't just those players faults, since fewer players are willing to explain mechanics of bosses even if they're asked simply because a high DPS party can ignore the mechanics, which hurts the newer players when they get a lower DPS party and have no idea what to do to keep from wiping. I've been playing for two and a half years, and there's some runs that I still have no clue on the exact details on the mechanics on certain bosses......

[Aramina]

As someone who frequently plays SCH, and DPSs quite a bit, I can see both sides of this argument.

There is no side in this thread that says DPS so much you forget you are a healer. The sides are "DPS when you have no healing to do (or when you become comfortable with it as a new player)." or "Don't DPS at all."

[Gamer3427]

There is no side in this thread that says DPS so much you forget you are a healer. The sides are "DPS when you have no healing to do (or when you become comfortable with it as a new player)." or "Don't DPS at all."

Tell that to about 80% of the DF healers I come across at level 60. That particular aspect of my post was more of a rant because a large portion of the "endgame", (maxed out melded gear), healers I come across tend to forget they're supposed to be healing half the time.....

[Aramina]

Tell that to about 80% of the DF healers I come across at level 60. That particular aspect of my post was more of a rant because a large portion of the "endgame", (maxed out melded gear), healers I come across tend to forget they're supposed to be healing half the time.....

I am of the opinion that bad is bad regardless of role. Do you think they would be any better if dps wasn't the meta?

edit: Maybe I am biased since as a healer I don't see these terrible healers? I have the urge to continually queue for expert as a DPS so I can see.

[Gamer3427]

I am of the opinion that bad is bad regardless of role. Do you think they would be any better if dps wasn't the meta?

edit: Maybe I am biased since as a healer I don't see these terrible healers? I have the urge to continually queue for expert as a DPS so I can see.

Don't get me wrong, some of them are just flat out bad in general. What I'm more referring to are that a fair number of times if I get a healer that DPSs at all, they go for constant DPS and spam cooldowns for actual healing sort of gameplay. It does theoretically work, but it also means that if something goes wrong, such as someone happening to get caught by an AoE, it tends to go rather south quickly because the healer can't switch out of Cleric Stance quick enough or doesn't have any cooldowns available. MCH is my main, and consequently what I use for most roulettes, and I've had more than a few times where if I didn't have potions, I'd die because the healers were too busy DPSing while I was sitting at half health or lower for 30s or so prior to an unavoidable mechanic. It's also entirely possible that I notice it more since as a MCH I don't have any self healing, (currently), other than using potions. Though I've also seen plenty of times where they'll let the tank get down to ~20% HP before switching back and popping a few cooldowns on him, or a SCH will just decide to let their fairy heal after a party wide AoE because they're in Cleric Stance. For all I know, maybe I'm just that unlucky to find all the worst types of DPS healers in the game......

[Aramina]

For all I know, maybe I'm just that unlucky to find all the worst types of DPS healers in the game......

Haha maybe! When I do 8 man content probably 80% of the time I get WHM that spam Medica2 so much that the sound makes me want to stab my eardrums, Scholars that spam succor out of range of the tank when no one is taking damage *but* the tank, and AST that won't use cards at all ever. So yeah, I know there are some awful healers out there, I just don't have experience with the ones that will dps until everyone dies.

[Ama_Hamada]

Don't get me wrong, some of them are just flat out bad in general. What I'm more referring to are that a fair number of times if I get a healer that DPSs at all, they go for constant DPS and spam cooldowns for actual healing sort of gameplay. It does theoretically work, but it also means that ifsomething goes wrong, such as someone happening to get caught by an AoE, it tends to go rather south quickly because the healer can't switch out of Cleric Stance quick enough or doesn't have any cooldowns available. MCH is my main, and consequently what I use for most roulettes, and I've had more than a few times where if I didn't have potions, I'd die because the healers were too busy DPSing while I was sitting at half health or lower for 30s or so prior to an unavoidable mechanic. It's also entirely possible that I notice it more since as a MCH I don't have any self healing, (currently), other than using potions. Though I've also seen plenty of times where they'll let the tank get down to ~20% HP before switching back and popping a few cooldowns on him, or a SCH will just decide to let their fairy heal after a party wide AoE because they're in Cleric Stance. For all I know, maybe I'm just that unlucky to find all the worst types of DPS healers in the game......

That is bad healing, has nothing to do with cleric stance, it is only 5 seconds. Only time I see that is in 24 man DFs like dun or city, so sick of co healers making me do all the work because they can't cast an aoe heal here or there. Please do not misblame bad players on an ability -.- be no different them me saying we need to get rid of DPS stances in tanks because most can't hold hate and use DPS stance when tank stance is needed. How come more don't jump on that? Why do people finger point cleric so much?

Cleric stance is not to blame, I say "Help me heal" not flip out on cleric. I also seen pure healers lack skill in healing and had same thing "sitting at half health or lower for 30s or so prior to an unavoidable mechanic" making me stress all my abilities solo healing to keep people up. Most notable is that peity melded whm that called me rude for asking for help to raise people when I am sitting at 0-2000 mp with them 8000+/16000 with me blowing stuff like Dissipation for a small mp gain.

*eyeroll*

1) The dungeons and raids are designed to be played with the roles you signed up for. Tank, Healer, DPS.
2) The dungeons and raids can be completed with everyone having the minimum ilevel. That might be hard. They would not design something to be impossible, so clearly the dev team can do it.
3) If you're playing the roles exactly as prescribed, then those duties go by fairly quickly.
4) The only way to know what the healer, or anyone's DPS is by violating the game's TOS with unauthorized tools.

So. There is no requirement, nor has there ever been a requirement for healers or tanks to DPS assuming the minimum level/ilevel is met, nor has there been a requirement not to. Now obviously there are ways of fudging this like tanks wearing DPS gear or healers wearing caster gear that has the wrong secondary values on them, and that is likely not something tested for.

As content ages, people become overleveled, so level sync gives players playing lower level content too much of a leg up. Same with gear. All the challenge is sucked out of the game when wearing the highest ilevel gear makes it a faceroll.

I'm pretty sure you, or anyone else doesn't spend 40 consecutive days playing every combination of job and dungeon just so they remember how to do it on that job~. No I'm pretty sure most players play just one or two jobs and the rest is just was just for achievements/bragging rights and were never actually played at the minimum ilevel.

*eye roll*
another post missing the point.

Healers have a lot of down time in this game, your post has nothing to do with this point, it is not a myth. It also has nothing to do with gear, this was refuted to you long ago when someone did expert in min gear and still found lots of time to DPS. You can also clear DFs in 30 mins with a DPS doing 200 DPS... but that is not a defense it should be acceptable.

So what point are you trying to make? How can you write so much with no point?

[Gamer3427]

That is bad healing, has nothing to do with cleric stance, it is only 5 seconds. Only time I see that is in 24 man DFs like dun or city, so sick of co healers making me do all the work because they can't cast an aoe heal here or there. Please do not misblame bad players on an ability -.- be no different them me saying we need to get rid of DPS stances in tanks because most can't hold hate and use DPS stance when tank stance is needed. How come more don't jump on that? Why do people finger point cleric so much?

Cleric stance is not to blame, I say "Help me heal" not flip out on cleric. I also seen pure healers lack skill in healing and had same thing "sitting at half health or lower for 30s or so prior to an unavoidable mechanic" making me stress all my abilities solo healing to keep people up. Most notable is that peity melded whm that called me rude for asking for help to raise people when I am sitting at 0-2000 mp with them 8000+/16000 with me blowing stuff like Dissipation for a small mp gain.

I'm not blaming the skill at all. While I main MCH, I do play SCH quite a bit, and I do DPS a lot. I was just saying that because of the "healers have to DPS" mentality that a lot of the playerbase has, there are an abundance of healers such as that where they end up DPSing more than healing. It's all about DPSing at the right time and place, but it's getting harder and harder to find healers in DF content that realize that. Yes, those healers are absolutely bad healers as a result. My point was that the community's mentality that I've seen more than a few times of "if you're not DPSing, you're a bad healer" is what has created such players.....

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

DPS stances in tanks?

That's because most tanks don't use dps stance when they're actively tanking. In PUG content you'll occasionally get a tank like me that solidifies aggro first, then swaps into dps stance until I notice the healers start struggling despite me rotating defensive cds as appropriate, but the vast majority of tank players sit exclusively in tank stance, and no one cares.

[Feidam]

I am of the opinion that bad is bad regardless of role. Do you think they would be any better if dps wasn't the meta?

edit: Maybe I am biased since as a healer I don't see these terrible healers? I have the urge to continually queue for expert as a DPS so I can see.

I burn through a ton of potions on certain bosses, from healers that dps first and heal second. They seem to think dps class don't get healing cause they should just avoid everything. Never mind some damage is just flat out unavoidable. I am all for healers dosing when they can as I find that an enjoying play style myself. However, there a good number of healers that think dpsing is their job too to the detriment of their healing. I am tired of the just "pot" so I can dps more mentality from some healers.