MNK 4.0 Changes . . . I'm not a fan tbh

[melkier33]

Yeah not liking a lot of this, the only reason i play this game is because i find monk fun. Most of these changes make no sense and the SS down may be enough to force me to play another class or another game. Part of me hopes that this is all a toll from SE, cuz i dont even know if they even play monk on the dev team anymore.


On the bright side when 5.0 hits we can look forward to Tornado Kick mastery, wind version gives you two kicks and 2nd kick sets you to -3 GL, earth version does an evasive jump + knockback, fire version +5% potency. Maybe add a fists of water for +2% healing buff and 2% tp regen.

[Ceolmund]

Hopefully with enough outcry like the white mages we can also be seen and they could actually buff our current skills since I doubt they care enough to actually remove or change other main skills. It's definitely not samurai with how much they're pushing it as a selfish dps with no raid utility other than high dps, and showing it off more and more than monk. Maybe we can get crazy potency changes like dragoon instead of getting nerfed across the board to actually make up for our loss of ToD and fracture. Anyways all these new skills/traits we're getting are garbage as well I'd say. RoE can barely be used in any content looking at it and I imagine it'll stay that way with downtime for raid groups to recover for a fight or have any amount of downtime. Tackle mastery is stupid since you're going to be in fists of fire 99% of the time and having a knock back with less potency, and 2 dashes for also less potency absolutely brilliant design decision.

Brotherhood is a laughable buff considering it's literally worse than astrologians balance on launch, and the whole 30% execution of weaponskills giving a chakra just feels like it's trying to force the monk to spam forbidden chakra instead of saving it. And that's even worsened by the stupid critical hit maybe getting a stack "oh you didn't use your forbidden chakra because your buffs are coming up in 20 seconds? Well guess you're possibly missing out on quite a few number of stacks." Then the worst skill of them all in my opinion RoF. The fun of a monk isn't hitting hard it's hitting decently well, but fast. So why in the world would you want to make a repeat of bard and literally remove something that they gain that makes them different, in this case skillspeed for damage. I don't want to go through my rotation as slow as hell purely because it's a dps increase because it was forced down our throats because of a terrible cross role change that could've been implemented much better.

[Shurrikhan]

Another particular issue I've had with MNK for a long time was how forms had timers. This is probably just specific to me but I noticed it when we started worrying about openers starting in Coeurl form. I've yet to understand why the forms have timers. Just like how MCH had the timer removed for ammunition MNK should have it removed for forms. And again, I don't understand why MNK was nerfed to this degree. If balance was a concern, SAM wouldn't be nearly as OP as it is and DRG and NIN wouldn't have been buffed. This is a hard nerf and it really makes me believe the development team wants less people to play MNK.

The 10s Form timers are the equivalent of the 10s combo timers. No more, no less.

(Agreed on all other points.)

That said, I wish they'd figure out what they actually intend to accomplish with the forms. Do they really intend for them to just be a 3x3 cross-combo system? If so, PB could as easily turn FS into no-ani-lock oGCD and the 9 weaponskills visible at a time could be shaved to just the 3 presently usable. If not, then how about making them more interesting than a mere combo system? At present, they have absolutely no advantage or distinction except as to which tier of 3 skill choices they access.

I get that, to a degree, but then again unlike said combo moves we are unable to use moves out of form. Whether that's an good or bad thing is up to interpretation and preference I guess. My issue is specifically with holding coeurl for openers and having to time it to random tanks who don't like to give countdowns. It's a particular annoyance and gets to me but yea it's not a big thing just a pet peeve of mine.

It's only our 100-potency "shit, I did not mean to hit that button yet" choices that are trimmed through that lockout though. Were they actually more viable than that, I'd agree, though.

[Blacktestament7]

The 10s Form timers are the equivalent of the 10s combo timers. No more, no less.

I get that, to a degree, but then again unlike said combo moves we are unable to use moves out of form. Whether that's an good or bad thing is up to interpretation and preference I guess. My issue is specifically with holding coeurl for openers and having to time it to random tanks who don't like to give countdowns. It's a particular annoyance and gets to me but yea it's not a big thing just a pet peeve of mine.

[Blacktestament7]

Hopefully with enough outcry like the white mages we can also be seen and they could actually buff our current skills since I doubt they care enough to actually remove or change other main skills.

Maybe it's the pessimist in me but I highly doubt you'll see really any outcry. I don't even think there's another thread about this. At least I couldn't find one. And I'm sure it's a 30/70 split about whether the changes are good or not, I feel like this is the minority. Everyone in my facebook groups are so happy to be able to hit FC more times and are more than willing to ignore the pot nerfs, RNG walls, and the Riddle downsides.

[Fhyrr]

I've been upset over this myself quite a lot. Since I've seen the trailer, I thought we'd get cool stuff... Then samurai came and I felt "ok, we are still going to get cool stuff though, so we're cool!" and then -this-...

Not only are we being brought down, other classes are being brought up. And if we look at the potency increases in other classes, they are significant. It feels like we are being doubly nerfed in comparative terms. Mathmatically, the nerfs won't ever compensate to keep our damage on equivalence with what we have at this moment.

Our new skills are laughable; truly. I understand the concept of introducing meditation and I feel it's a cool idea to have chakra build in the middle of a fight... but SURELY there were better ways. Dependent on Crit, which is a stat that does not have a very high percentage already (that we can only boost for 15 seconds every x amount of time?)... and on a CHANCE of a Crit no less! How was this a good idea? Now, there is Direct hit which causes 'critical action' ... however the ability for the chakra build up only mentions critical hits I think... BUT EVEN if Direct hit counts to it... its % is surely not going to be high enough to warrant this. And even if it was, it still won't make up for the RAW POTENCY we just lost.

And let's not kid ourselves... crit chances can happen on all our moves... yet only weaponskill crits will count towards this.

Everything seems conceptually wrong and rubbish in practice. Brotherhood being a skill that only benefits physical damage, in a small are around us, for 5% extra damage WITHOUT buffing us in the process? Litany buffs everyone including the dragoon... so what's the problem? I thought it was to give us raid utility on par with others?

Tackle mastery? In fire stance, the increase to a 30 second oGCD ability in terms of damage is... irrelevant.

Riddles? All of them are bad, regardless how we look at it. Counter-intuitive. Damaging to the class.

Some people mention the stat inflation... Really? So, the stat inflation is only for monks? Because I see a LOT of potency buffs for others and massive abilities being given to others. On top of raid buffs... So how come its an excuse for 1 class, but not for others? Even if meditation will work with direct hits... other classes also have direct hits. So where is the compensation?

People mention BRD, but at least there was some utility involved with that class I think (?)... What they did with MNK as far as we stand is leave us with no DPS, irrelevant utility, lackluster/useless/uninteresting 'addons' to our current abilities AND manage to actually hinder our identity.

I am fearful for the job I enjoy... Not for a nerf here or there, but for the comparative pitfall we have been thrown into, when looking at other classes. This has literally killed my hype - which maybe is a good thing!

[Meui]

Am I missing something here? Because I don't really understand why some of these changes were implemented whatsoever - but one that I just can't wrap my head around was Tornado Kick's lowered cooldown. Even if I wanted to (and I don't), I can't possibly use TK every 10s, anyway. I've never had a situation come up where I was like, "Aw, shoot. I wish TK was on a shorter CD!"

[Shurrikhan]

Am I missing something here? Because I don't really understand why some of these changes were implemented whatsoever - but one that I just can't wrap my head around was Tornado Kick's lowered cooldown. Even if I wanted to (and I don't), I can't possibly use TK every 10s, anyway. I've never had a situation come up where I was like, "Aw, shoot. I wish TK was on a shorter CD!"

From Coeurl you could Snap, PB, Snap twice, TK, Snap 3 times, TK again. In other words, the limit would be somewhere under 5s. They've actually purposely kept it long enough to prevent that.

Ah, got'cha! You could potentially kinda burst and blow through PB, but then basically be back at ground zero again.

Right. The only thing is, given Form Shift, a single Perfect Balance could supply 2 TKs, provided the cooldown were low enough. They've voided that possibility, but still kept the TK CD low enough to blow it on a PB over a Bootshine spam (not that we ever will, especially now that we have Deep Meditation) and then use it as a phase break (which we'll never use, either, if we could in any way maintain GL through it instead).

[Meui]

From Coeurl you could Snap, PB, Snap twice, TK, Snap 3 times, TK again. In other words, the limit would be somewhere under 5s. They've actually purposely kept it long enough to prevent that.

Ah, got'cha! You could potentially kinda burst and blow through PB, but then basically be back at ground zero again.

[silentwindfr]

i do play monk since the V1, i did know the worst, when we was double stats, int/str, when we was normally a Offtank... and such... even more hated than while hw.... meaning find a group was clearly impossible. but it was still my main. i still remember the login the day of ARR for find that half of my accessory was garbage because they was int based. i did enjoy everything that have done to the monk in ARR. i was delighted to finally be a destroyer of rhaglr...

Then HW did come..... at the start i was conflicted about chakra mechanic and cyclone kick... in my eyes that was in total contradiction with what was the monk.
and now we have SB... and i can't understand at all what they have try to do? honestly speaking, do they want all the monk to stop to play? do they have really look at this and said, yeah that what is the monk. for god sake riddle mechanic, tackles mastery are not the freaking monk!

what is the monk?
it's a jobs based on 2 mechanic that have been unchanged since ARR. the only change was an increase of greese lightning duration. this two mechanic are the combo form system allowing us to have a free sort of combo system and the greese lightning system.

what is the idea behind?
the monk is means to be a jobs that will deal more dps as the time pass, being slow to start and being a machine gun that will destroy the enemy by the number of attack.

but here the trouble...
we are not the fastest class ingame... greese lightning increase our speed of 15% (5% per stack) for a duration in sb of 16 sec. tricky to maintain...
ninja huton increase them speed of 15% for one ninjutsu.... that can be refreshed by combo... that have a duration of 60 sec. easy to maintain...
samurai do have a combo : Hakaze > shifu increasing his speed by 10% (less than the monk) for a duration of 30 sec. easy maintain ...

the most amusing is the ninja and the samurai have a better potency on them skill... far better.

they keep giving us buff of damage instead to emphazised on what we are... a machine gun... the best example that come to my mind is kenshiro from hokuto no ken.
but SB instead to make us faster and hitting hard... we hitting slower and less harder. for god sake...

why our combo haven't changed since ARR... our cycle is mostly unchanged for age! the monk need to be redone. it's simple... i feel like the whm they don't know what to do with us.

i don't want the tackles mastery, i don't need the riddle mechanic that for me is a pure garbage... i want my monk back!

for me the monk of SB is as bad than the one of the V1, it's at this level that i see the monk.... then until they rework this mess, i will go play the samurai, that is a better monk than the monk. lucky me, they use the same gear!