A consern about space efficieny since stormblood is not getting enough space increase

[Alleo]

So in one interview he is going around and says that a glamour log might be possible if player demands it but its not high priority for them right now and in another interview he states that they fear the consequences for the ingame market and hackers thus dont want to do it? Can you make up your mind please? Thats really irritating..

And really you fear for the market? The thing that you keep destroying by handing out glamour items like candy in new content like PotD? Where is your fear for the market after you make it rain materia? Where is it, after you released all these glamour clothes in Aquapolis and PotD, or the pets that are seemingly lost there in masses?

Also please..its not about the craft-able items that people care about..those can be bought or crafted again really fast..people fear for all the stuff like Cash shop glamour that is often not store able and they also care a big way about good looking dungeon loot that you cant sell to others!!! These are the stuff that probably makes up most of the inventory space because that would take a long way to gather again..

Ugh I can already see it..in 4.5 they will finally introduce something that is barebone and not thought through and then they will complain that we as the customers dont know what we want if we complain about the bad implementation..since you know he mentions something like a glamour history..and I fear that this would be just something really small and restricted again.

Dear SE you are not the only MMO in this market. Others can manage to introduce a good glamour book without any of those problems (or they simply dont care that people could hack their way to it >_> I mean I would not care how player Y got their glamour) so please dont talk about these things as if they are not possible..either you simply dont want to do it because it would mean the loss of money..or you need more and better code writers. But ignoring the obvious inventory problem can only get you that far..if there is no significant change in 4.x and no plans for the release of 5.0 people might not want to give you money anymore, simply because they get the feeling that you dont care for the real problems in the game.

Sorry for the kinda aggressive tone in this post..but I am growing very tired of all this opinion changes and bad reasons.

[Naunet]

Ugh I can already see it..in 4.5 they will finally introduce something that is barebone and not thought through and then they will complain that we as the customers dont know what we want if we complain about the bad implementation..since you know he mentions something like a glamour history..and I fear that this would be just something really small and restricted again.

Yeah, I really worry about this. It's what happened with the Glamour system overall. I don't understand why they seem allergic to looking at what works in other MMOs and implementing it.

[Lycieus]

Yeah, I really worry about this. It's what happened with the Glamour system overall. I don't understand why they seem allergic to looking at what works in other MMOs and implementing it.

The funniest part is Yoshi claims to have played Legion and says his team draws inspiration from other MMOs. Maybe they do, but usually not in any meaningful way.

[Ama_Hamada]

So in one interview he is going around and says that a glamour log might be possible if player demands it but its not high priority for them right now and in another interview he states that they fear the consequences for the ingame market and hackers thus dont want to do it? Can you make up your mind please? Thats really irritating..

And really you fear for the market? The thing that you keep destroying by handing out glamour items like candy in new content like PotD? Where is your fear for the market after you make it rain materia? Where is it, after you released all these glamour clothes in Aquapolis and PotD, or the pets that are seemingly lost there in masses?

Also please..its not about the craft-able items that people care about..those can be bought or crafted again really fast..people fear for all the stuff like Cash shop glamour that is often not store able and they also care a big way about good looking dungeon loot that you cant sell to others!!! These are the stuff that probably makes up most of the inventory space because that would take a long way to gather again..

Ugh I can already see it..in 4.5 they will finally introduce something that is barebone and not thought through and then they will complain that we as the customers dont know what we want if we complain about the bad implementation..since you know he mentions something like a glamour history..and I fear that this would be just something really small and restricted again.

Dear SE you are not the only MMO in this market. Others can manage to introduce a good glamour book without any of those problems (or they simply dont care that people could hack their way to it >_> I mean I would not care how player Y got their glamour) so please dont talk about these things as if they are not possible..either you simply dont want to do it because it would mean the loss of money..or you need more and better code writers. But ignoring the obvious inventory problem can only get you that far..if there is no significant change in 4.x and no plans for the release of 5.0 people might not want to give you money anymore, simply because they get the feeling that you dont care for the real problems in the game.

Sorry for the kinda aggressive tone in this post..but I am growing very tired of all this opinion changes and bad reasons.

I know the feels, I got someone on my back in a different thread just because he thinks we should bow down to the dev team no matter mistakes they do, I do not think so and better communication will go a long way. Look how long this thread is now, look how many likes it has, I do not see many posts here above 100, how come we did not at least have a community rep saying this will be relayed?

[Harukochi]

I anticipated this thread to be a greed centered post but a lot of the issues are relevant to me and I wholeheartedly agree. Will refer back to this post to add personal input eventually.

+1 And bump

[KisaiTenshi]

Yeah, I really worry about this. It's what happened with the Glamour system overall. I don't understand why they seem allergic to looking at what works in other MMOs and implementing it.

Because what works in other MMO's works in OTHER MMO's.

FFXIV favors speed and safety, have you heard of any widespread crashes and rollbacks? Now go look at pretty much all freemium RPG's. It's a regular thing because that's how "dupe bugs" work in other games. The game server has one copy, and the filesystem has another and doesn't write to it for long periods of time. So if the bots and hackers want to dupe items, they just load up their bots to do whatever activity will crash the server, and when the server reboots, they now have duplicate items.

Here's how "dupe" bugs work, please note that this is generalized but based on how at least one game worked:
1. You select the item you want to duplicate
2. Find a buddy who will hold onto your item
3. Go into a dungeon or some part of the game that you know can be crashed
4. As the crashing begins (usually no other users can login) trade the item to your buddy and then have them log out. Meanwhile you stay logged in so that when the data rolls back you will still have the item, but since your buddy logged out, their copy of the item has already been written to disk.
5. Upon login, both users have the same item.

A variation of above is the "hold item" dupe bug, where you simply remove an item from a pocket of inventory space, when the server reboots you will still be holding the item, AND the item will still be in the pocket.

Now the obvious way around that is to have a hash generated for every item so that when the server starts up, it deletes items that have hash collisions from players, pets, containers, banks, retainers, etc. But you can't "hash" quantity items. So maybe you don't need to dupe that ilevel 275 item, you can instead dupe a stack of 99 resources that sell for a large amount. It also takes a huge amount of time to do hash checks. This is partly why you can only sell stacks of items, and not individual items from a stack. If you could sell individual items from a stack, the game has to sync every time an item is sold from the stack, not just when the stack is sold.

The other intended side effect that allows dupe bugs in the first place is that it also creates a lot more work for GM's in re-creating items that are lost during crashes.

Hence that high speed syncing benefits SE bottom line by not having to constantly replace items in the game that destroyed in roll backs. For every 'dupe bug' there is also a way to lose gear.

Glamour logs can abuse such things because they are the very example of having one item represented by another. If the game rolls back it needs to tell the server that the character is wearing X, not Y, but the database will show them wearing Y until the glamour replacement is found. If the game crashes, you may lose the original item, the glamour and any gear that which the glamour is applied. But it's also in theory possible to duplicate gear through the "try on" feature, because the try-on feature is just the glamour feature applied to your point of view.

In another game, it was a common thing for players to hack the game data and swap the id's of some items, usually to give them access to gear that wasn't actually available. Everyone else sees the player naked or wearing something ridiculous, but because that player hacked the item, that means the server knows what id is being sent, and if it doesn't do anything about it, it may inadvertently write that to disk without checking that it's valid. Then every time someone sees that character, their game client crashes because that asset is incorrect. While I'm mentioning this, similar bugs enable "using" items that have quantity stacks in that game too. So you could in theory swap revive feathers with another consumable, and all other players see "using revive" while the player themselves sees themselves using some food item. There were so many bugs in that game involving inventory that the hackers always had the upper hand in everything. Part of the reason I quit playing that game.

The fact that bots are still randomly teleporting through floors tells me that Square-Enix hasn't taken game client hacking seriously yet, and as such until they can be sure it won't result in extra work for the support staff, it's likely not a high priority.

[Lycieus]

Because what works in other MMO's works in OTHER MMO's.

FFXIV favors speed and safety, have you heard of any widespread crashes and rollbacks? Now go look at pretty much all freemium RPG's. It's a regular thing because that's how "dupe bugs" work in other games. The game server has one copy, and the filesystem has another and doesn't write to it for long periods of time. So if the bots and hackers want to dupe items, they just load up their bots to do whatever activity will crash the server, and when the server reboots, they now have duplicate items.

Are you referring to freemium in the literal sense, or is this just a blanket term for all f2p mmos?

Also, I'm not exactly sure what your point is. Duping is bad, I think everyone can agree, but it's not a major issue in any MMO I can think of that I've played or can think of. Square has had issues with people exploiting gil and items anyway in the past. Is your post supposed to be some sort of excuse for them to not solve this problem because their execution might be shoddy?

[Naunet]

Because what works in other MMO's works in OTHER MMO's.

FFXIV favors speed and safety, have you heard of any widespread crashes and rollbacks? Now go look at pretty much all freemium RPG's. It's a regular thing because that's how "dupe bugs" work in other games.

The many MMOs I've mentioned previously in this thread that possess a glamour log do NOT have issues with "dupe bugs", nor do they have widespread crashes and rollbacks.

[SokiYagami]

To be fair, the concerns raised by KisaiTenshi are valid ones. However, just like how some player used the argument that SE is a business organization in the kupo store debate, in this case we are simply end-users. We can simply ignored the process and comment/feedback on the results alone. Just like how SE can charge the digital items cheaper but they won't, we can sympathize with the situation but we don't have to. Not saying that I will be doing that, but hey it take both hands to clap and you can't really blame some of the players here for being pissed.

[Lycieus]

To be fair, the concerns raised by KisaiTenshi are valid ones. However, just like how some player used the argument that SE is a business organization in the kupo store debate, in this case we are simply end-users. We can simply ignored the process and comment/feedback on the results alone. Just like how SE can charge the digital items cheaper but they won't, we can sympathize with the situation but we don't have to. Not saying that I will be doing that, but hey it take both hands to clap and you can't really blame some of the players here for being pissed.

Exactly, I alluded to this is my previous post, but SE doesn't get to take all the credit and none of the blame. If they want to make so much off the mogstation and charge extra for retainers and whatever, they need to accept the standards that have been set by other MMOs that charge less or a similar amount for their products. If they can't meet this standard, why should we as players have any sympathy for them/give them any money?