Is it just me or are people overreacting to WHM too soon?

[Rita1989]

On the bright side... you can look forward to WHM being fixed in 2yrs then, if we're using BRD as a the gauge.

BRD wasn't even broken it's arguably the best DPS in the game right now, people were just butthurt about in being different then 2.0 and honestly with the changes I am worried about bard being potentially being underwhelming now they decided to completely change it.

WHM needs an overhaul but instead got a bunch of new abilities they won't be using if playing the job optimally

[Neophyte]

I think one of the reasons is, that people expect the "UI element" mechanic to be something central and exciting. But that does not have to be the case. The UI element of Astro for example is just another way to display your cards, wow. Isn't the SCH UI element wasted, too, if you don't need the fairy-tether if a asp. benefic is up and normal fairy healing is enough?

First listed kill in FFlogs for Manipulator (A4S) lists the WHM with 33 Cure and 20 CureII. And even rank 2 group for A4s in 3.0 had a WHM with 23 Cure, 28 Cure2. Just saying. We have to see how that works out in newer raids.

Oh noes, WHM will get "worse" with gear progression. That's always true for at least one tank, one healer and 1-2 dps. Get over it. Gear is shared (except weapon).
Personal attraction to a job, but still wanting to do "the most optimal choice"? Good luck.

[Aetherstar]

Snip

You bring a very good point with the thought about the "UI element" mechanic shouldn't necessarily be such a central thing for a class to function properly. But I think people are just disappointed that the other 2 healers got new things they could use as they gain the resources for it naturally from how they have always been played. For WHMs or also for other healers, the Cure/Cure II's use for raids and such is definitely there of course, but again, I think folks were just pointing out that there's also content aside from that where you need not use it so frequently or much at all. When other healers could use their new stuff and have fun using it without needing very specifically designed encounters for them is where the Lily system (and to some extent, Plenary Indulgence) seems to fail imo.


*edited: added PI

[CosmicKirby]

I played AST from day one and it was perfectly capable of healing roulette content before all the buffs. People whined and AST got crazy buffs. Now here we are....

BLM is capable of healing some roulette content. This is an OBSCENELY poor measure of a classes' actual ability to perform their role.

[RubenSnizzle]

I'm not a hardcore raider anyways...so, why would i care what those people say? OHNOES META WHM BAD and all the sheep follows the herd blindly. Most of them don't even raid too, but they want to follow the tier list like some unskilled player on a fighting game who just want good w/l by using a zoning character.



Like seriously, grow a spine and play what you want. Raiding scene is a joke.

[Zojha]

I'm not a hardcore raider anyways...so, why would i care what those people say?

Well, if you're not a raider you don't even need a job stone - the content is do-able with classes only, most of it even fairly easily. Balance is none of your concerns, move along, let those who it concerns be concerned about it.

[SaitoHikari]

I'm not a hardcore raider anyways...so, why would i care what those people say? OHNOES META WHM BAD and all the sheep follows the herd blindly. Most of them don't even raid too, but they want to follow the tier list like some unskilled player on a fighting game who just want good w/l by using a zoning character.

Like seriously, grow a spine and play what you want. Raiding scene is a joke.

Ugh, this again.

For the last freaking time, this is not just some raider-exclusive complaint. This affects all WHMs regardless of skill level. To deny it as such only displays how short-sighted you are.

The fact of the matter is, the lily system as it currently is could be largely ignored by WHMs, and WHM players likely wouldn't feel a difference at all. At best, it'd only provide a minimal bonus to cooldowns every few minutes. That's pretty bad. I'm not even sure how people can justify this at all, because when you compare WHM's system to literally every other job, it becomes blatantly obvious that WHM drew the short end of the stick in the design department. Did you know what else drew that stick last expansion? Bard suddenly being slapped with a casting mechanic blatantly copy pasted from Machinist, with nothing besides Straighter Shot and Barrage being adjusted to fit the new direction. And NOBODY defended that besides the elitist raiders you rail against, because suddenly Bard is unplayable to casual players. Why are WHMs any different to you guys?

And this is coming from someone that only started playing FFXIV after HW release, so I never got to experience ARR Bard at endgame - and I am actually one of the few slightly saddened by the Bard overhaul as one of the few people that has mastered HW Bard and knows how arguably broken Bards actually are when played optimally, but knows how badly designed HW Bard is at the end of the day and that it's a necessary sacrifice for the future of the game.

To me, this has nothing to do with raider concerns, this is just purely insulting from a design standpoint. Class balance doesn't exist in a freaking vacuum, it has implications far beyond the mere enjoyment of one person playing the job. Class balance is intricately tied to content balance, and stumbling this badly before release does not bode well for how content difficulty may be scaled. You also must take into consideration, many players here have experience from other MMOs - some may have seen something like this happen in their previous games, and have witnessed the aftermath on their communities. I'm sure I don't have to bring up Dragon Nest again, literally everyone in my circle of friends that migrated to FFXIV from that game are baffled that the FFXIV devs could ever come close to making the same mistake that decimated the healer community there. It's a near exact mirror of what happened there, and it has shaken our confidence - and three of us were actually former official forum moderators for that game, and we had to watch it happen. I'll be damned if I see the same happening in this game without fighting as hard as I did back then for a game and its developers that didn't deserve such passion, compared to the FFXIV devs who have shown that they will admit to their mistakes and actually care.

[Derio]

It's not too soon. Since they have all the skills laid out it's easy to see how WHM will under perform. Not to mention how much better skills AST and SCH received

[CosmicKirby]

I'm not a hardcore raider anyways...so, why would i care what those people say? OHNOES META WHM BAD and all the sheep follows the herd blindly. Most of them don't even raid too, but they want to follow the tier list like some unskilled player on a fighting game who just want good w/l by using a zoning character.



Like seriously, grow a spine and play what you want. Raiding scene is a joke.

I like how you call attention to being a huge scrub at fighting games here.

Actually good players wouldn't even care. It's about the win. Meta is only useful in how it lets you understand how to improve. Focus, on, results.

[SaitoHikari]

They are actually used fairly often, but I don't think it's anywhere near as much as you're trying to imply it is. Hell, I think when I get back home tomorrow, I'll go bump this thread and fire up a stream of my WHM in EX/60 roulette, and everyone will get to watch how often someone that only sub-mains WHM at best actually casts those skills - while noting everything else I do to actually minimize the amount of times I have to cast Cure I/II.

Let me repeat that again: note EVERYTHING ELSE I use to minimize the amount of times I have to cast Cure I/II. This is worth quoting repeatedly.

They might get more usage in raids, but the other point is, there's nothing a WHM can do that the other two healers can already provide with even more side bonuses.

I'm making good on my promise to stream my roulettes as a WHM, not in premades as I don't roll with that. Can't really improve and adapt if you're only playing with the same people every time.

This will probably only go for about 40 minutes as of the time of posting this, unless for some reason you want to watch me potentially Bard afterwards too.

https://www.twitch.tv/saitohikari