Is it just me or are people overreacting to WHM too soon?

[ZhaneX]

Again, how are the tool tips we've been given a theory.

The theory is in just reading the descriptions vs. actually using them yourself in a practical setting.

[SaitoHikari]

You've misunderstood then.

People are saying that lillies are confusing/unnacceptable because you are incentivized by the mechanics of the WHM job to MINIMIZE how many Cure/Cure 2 you throw out there. Of course you use them, but why would you tie a new system to the 2 spells that every other one of your tools is designed to take the place of in certain contexts.

I've asked this question to multiple nay-sayers, when the raid is hit by an attack striking all 8 players, should I cast Medica I to bring them all back to health efficiently or should I cast Cure to try and get more lillies. This is an awkward decision to have to make and is replicated among each of the non-Cure spells that WHM has access to. This is the problem we are trying to bring attention to.

This is PRECISELY it.

The lily system actively discourages WHMs from using all of their other skills to their fullest potential. No other job has such confused design with their primary mechanic. The rest flow - WHM's doesn't. And when comparing all the jobs together, it's fairly clear that little time or effort was spent on WHM compared to, say, Astrologian or Bard (though the amount of effort on the latter was justified considering they got completely overhauled, BECAUSE their population dropped like a rock after their -first- overhaul, of which the original Wanderer's Minuet also happens to be about as slapped on as this lily mechanic from a design standpoint).

[Ayer2015]

snip .

If the current proc rate of lilies proves to be insufficient it will likely be changed down the road. We'll see once we get our hands on the job in 2 weeks. I just find people are minimizing just how often cure/cure 2 is actually used.

[MomomiMomi]

If the current proc rate of lilies proves to be insufficient it will likely be changed down the road. We'll see once we get our hands on the job in 2 weeks. I just find people are minimizing just how often cure/cure 2 is actually used.

They're really not used often at all unless if you don't know how to efficiently use your other spells and abilities.

WHM has it even weirder because they have Tetragrammaton AND Benediction, spells that are direct replacements to Cure and Cure II, and those abilities don't give you lilies. They reduced the cooldown on Benediction to boot, so that means even less Cure/Cure II required.

It's badly designed, plain and simple.

[Yallaid]

The theory is in just reading the descriptions vs. actually using them yourself in a practical setting.

but there is very little about the tool tip descriptions that is unclear. I completely agree with you, arguments made from calculations based on numbers that may still change should wait until the game is release, there is a lot of underlying math that is going to change.

But the biggest problem (and there are still others, but I can live with them until we are inevitably buffed once the actual raiders start complaining) with the class are the skills that proc Lillies.

The only skills that proc lillies according to the tooltips provided are Cure I and Cure II. I don't need to log in game to tell how this part works, unless they simply dropped a whole skill off the description accidentally, in which I'd appreciate them telling us as much.

[Ayer2015]

Now you are catching on. If you are DPSing you gain no lilies so what is the point of them? Are you saying it is a good thing to have a mechanic that during normal play will be IGNORED? Do any of the other healers (or hell, even classes) deal with that? No.

You are basing you're argument on lilies not procing sufficiently enough without even trying the job in practice. If the rate under-tuned it will get changed.

[SaitoHikari]

If the current proc rate of lilies proves to be insufficient it will likely be changed down the road. We'll see once we get our hands on the job in 2 weeks. I just find people are minimizing just how often cure/cure 2 is actually used.

They are actually used fairly often, but I don't think it's anywhere near as much as you're trying to imply it is. Hell, I think when I get back home tomorrow, I'll go bump this thread and fire up a stream of my WHM in EX/60 roulette, and everyone will get to watch how often someone that only sub-mains WHM at best actually casts those skills - while noting everything else I do to actually minimize the amount of times I have to cast Cure I/II.

Let me repeat that again: note EVERYTHING ELSE I use to minimize the amount of times I have to cast Cure I/II. This is worth quoting repeatedly.

WHM has it even weirder because they have Tetragrammaton AND Benediction, spells that are direct replacements to Cure and Cure II, and those abilities don't give you lilies. They reduced the cooldown on Benediction to boot, so that means even less Cure/Cure II required.

They might get more usage in raids, but the other point is, there's nothing a WHM can do that the other two healers can already provide with even more side bonuses.

[Ayer2015]

They're really not used often at all unless if you don't know how to efficiently use your other spells and abilities.

WHM has it even weirder because they have Tetragrammaton AND Benediction, spells that are direct replacements to Cure and Cure II, and those abilities don't give you lilies. They reduced the cooldown on Benediction to boot, so that means even less Cure/Cure II required.

Those cool-downs are intended as clutch heals.... if being used otherwise we play the role differently.

[Hamada]

Their track record on a lot of things doesn't instill much faith. A lot of times it seems they have no clue what they're doing and don't even understand how their own game works.

This is exactly why people react like they do now. I really do not blame people reacting like WHM is dead, etc because of what momi said

Those cool-downs are intended as clutch heals.... if being used otherwise we play the role differently.

they allow to squeeze in more dps. Using them as cluch heals means someone does not know what they are doing.

[MomomiMomi]

Those cool-downs are intended as clutch heals.... if being used otherwise we play the role differently.

If you're using them as clutch heals you're not using them efficiently.