Guess warriors no longer pull bosses?

[SpookyGhost]

Except for that Spookyghost, shirke requires the user to have aggro to begin with. So you can't shirke on a pull. Shirke simply gives your target your aggro that you have.

Ahh yeah you're right, thanks for the info. I guess you'll still need NIN for the EQ pull, though Shirk will still be useful after the swap.

[Takamorisan]

With Shirk agro management will be trivialized, you will only screw up this mechanic if you maliciously intend to. My concerns with WAR is the berserk buff duration,stance dance and the dps rotation being really strict in order to achieve the pentacleaves.

[xJimmehx]

If we can pentacleave on pull, that would probably be the best single target enmity generating burst. Triple cleave can already rip hate off MTs in 3.0.

Im curious where WAR will stand in SB at all. It seems like we are becoming worse at AoE at a glance(no more hp absorb+big pulls{/cry}), lower potency with some existing skills, and better at tanking bosses because of rampart+more single target dps(berserk+pentacleave+3xpunch+charge). Its almost as if they wanted WAR to MT more and pull less between. I wish i knew more about what they are becoming..Seems like WAR is just a high hp, single-target-dps, that was given defensive cds. I wonder why there arent many threads on war yet. The silence in war related discussion is sort of unsettling.

Edit: Looks like we cant triple cleave on pull anymore? Well that stinks.. I guess that puts an end to my assumptions of pentacleaving on pull.

[Didje]

Im curious where WAR will stand in SB at all. . ..Seems like WAR is just a high hp, single-target-dps, that was given defensive cds. I wonder why there arent many threads on war yet. The silence in war related discussion is sort of unsettling.

You are right : no one talks about the way they killed the self-healing philosophy of the war. 3.0 gave a real off-tanking job to the war, and now ... war has no job anymore. It will still be less damage mitigated than the PLD, but will not bring anything to the group anymore (slashing added to Sam, so NIN and SAM will do it), so DRK will be the off-tank. Most of the new skills are useless and non consistent with the war abilities. They just added abilities to do more fell cleaves, as if the WAR had no other skill ....

[vigioX-Sun]

those who play war im pretty sure are wondering what is to become of the job itself(specially on raid position), war is a really rewarding job if play right with self sustain an high dps burst , it needs a lot of planing an memorize mechanics
at least for me that what makes me fell in love with it,yes it receive a lot of changes but i think the trade off of war Def for DPS(selfHeals) feel pretty good on 3.0, i know we did not lose much but is gonna feel really weird not having Bloodbath/mercy stroke an other skills i been so use to since 1.0, i will keep my critics until i play it myself an see how it feels until then i recommend my war fellow to stay put an see what is to become of it, too bad we lose our best raid utility path effect.

[Didje]

it receive a lot of changes but i think the trade off of war Def for DPS(selfHeals) feel pretty good on 3.0,...
... i recommend my war fellow to stay put an see what is to become of it, too bad we lose our best raid utility path effect.

The problem is that in the same way they said they want to lower the tank dps ... So i'm not sure that war will bring much dps. Sure they could change things until june,16th but for the moment the WAR just loses interesting skills, with no addition of interesting skills... They could imagine any other ways to use the gauge than spamming more fell cleave/decimate.

[aleph_null]

If we can pentacleave on pull, that would probably be the best single target enmity generating burst. Triple cleave can already rip hate off MTs in 3.0.

It's not your fell cleaves that rip aggro, it's your butcher's block lol. One crit butcher's block under berserk generates around as much aggro as three crit fell cleaves under berserk, which is why as OT you shouldn't use butcher's block too often.

[vigioX-Sun]

It's not your fell cleaves that rip aggro, it's your butcher's block lol. One crit butcher's block under berserk generates around as much aggro as three crit fell cleaves under berserk, which is why as OT you shouldn't use butcher's block too often.

I find it weird they did not change our dps to Path or Eye but in animation perspective butcher block must hurt a lot more than a slash.
An yes critical fell cleves are as dangerous as butcher block even after str to vit changes, it does increase a lot of enmity,
But a good MT will not lose hate from OT war even at full butcher block an fell cleves at least on my own experience seen many great PLD/DRK/an WAR go full offensive mode an not lose agro on OT because they can sustain an high DPS#.
So on my opinion is on the player side an nor the skill (also ILV).

[aleph_null]

I find it weird they did not change our dps to Path or Eye but in animation perspective butcher block must hurt a lot more than a slash.
An yes critical fell cleves are as dangerous as butcher block even after str to vit changes, it does increase a lot of enmity,
But a good MT will not lose hate from OT war even at full butcher block an fell cleves at least on my own experience seen many great PLD/DRK/an WAR go full offensive mode an not lose agro on OT because they can sustain an high DPS#.
So on my opinion is on the player side an nor the skill (also ILV).

A good MT would do as little halone or power slash combos as possible since those are huge dps losses, way more than the OT gains (20 potency) from using butcher's block combo over repeating storm's eye combo. If your definition of good MT requires being able to babysit a selfish war OT spamming butcher's block at the cost of total raid dps, let's just agree to disagree.

[SpookyGhost]

You are right : no one talks about the way they killed the self-healing philosophy of the war.

Losing Bloodbath and SW isn't that big of a deal. Neither of them made up for healer GCDs outside of big puls in dungeons with Vengeance, Berserk, and Bloodbath. SW was good to have in a pinch and Bloodbath is okay in your opener sort of, but they really aren't that big of a deal. We still have Equilibrium, which was our only really important heal to begin with (IB too but that's used less than Equilibrium).

3.0 gave a real off-tanking job to the war, and now ... war has no job anymore. It will still be less damage mitigated than the PLD, but will not bring anything to the group anymore (slashing added to Sam, so NIN and SAM will do it), so DRK will be the off-tank. Most of the new skills are useless and non consistent with the war abilities. They just added abilities to do more fell cleaves, as if the WAR had no other skill ....

While I personally think PLD will be a must-have, I don't think DRK brings to the table anything more interesting than WAR. WAR, in SB, has 3 defensive CDs on a medium recast timer that work on all damage (Rampart, Vengeance, and Thrill of Battle), a Rampart equivalent for physical damage (Raw Intuition), and the shortest recast can't-die ability (Holmgang). DRK, meanwhile, has 3 defensive CDs on a short to medium to long recast timer (Blackest Night, Rampart, Shadow Wall), a high mitigation magic-only CD (Dark Mind), and a long recast can't-die ability (Living Dead). This doesn't take into account IB, Equilibrium, or Shake It Off (SIO is a bit questionable in use but still something DRK doesn't have an equivalent too).

If WAR and DRK are roughly the same damage, then I'd say that DRK and WAR are equally useful. What we got was a change in class flavor, now instead of being the self healing, high damage tank we're the FC bot tank. Which I personally find very boring and probably going to switch to SAM, but not because I think that WAR is in some dire straight.