White Mage just might be okay

[RhettSerris]

But wait! You forget!

That brought a smile to my face, thank you.

Plenary Indulgence does not heal players with no stacks of confessions meaning that the only person you're going to be healing this consistently with cure I and cure II to receive any benefit from this spell is the tank.

And uh... your percentage math is just bizzare. 15+20 does not equal 45 if percentages were to even work that way. The game will not roll one die for both to proc. It will roll separately for each check so you still just have a 15% for free cure and a 20% chance for a lily. You're not rolling a d100 and expecting 0-14 = free cure and 15-35 = lily.

I haven't really done any serious number crunching in a while, but the way I saw it was that each dice roll is being performed separately but they are still all performed? By virtue of being nonzero your odds of proccing something goes up, I think?

Again I haven't done this kind of thing in a long while so my math could very well be off, I don't know!
Also I likened Plucky Invitation more to a mini Tetragrammaton than an AOE heal.

But the elephant in the room is: So what? Tell me one thing that a WHM can do that an AST or SCH cannot do as well while still providing group and raid utility that the WHM simply does not have?

The so what, as you eloquently put it, is that White Mage can throw out enough personal DPS to make up for the fact that it doesn't bring utility since, aside from shields, SCH and AST utility is chiefly about boosting party DPS. For example: If you take the amount of DPS an AST boosts over the course of an entire fight due to Balances, you could "mash it together" with AST's personal DPS to find their personal contribution. Or to reword, the boosted DPS of the DPS roles because of Balance could be added to AST's overall DPS total since it was their utility that aided the DPS.

So basically,

Do you think, hand on heart, the personal DPS surplus WHM brings to the table is more valuable than the rDPS the others still bring?

The thing is I really, really don't know. I wish I did, I wish I could give an answer that would assuage the doubts and concerns of current WHM mains but I'm really not smart enough to do that.

[Risvertasashi]

It's more that WHM's heals are just flat out weaker (yet more expensive) than AST across the board. And then there's nothing really that makes up for that.

[Cynfael]

The so what, as you eloquently put it, is that White Mage can throw out enough personal DPS to make up for the fact that it doesn't bring utility since, aside from shields, SCH and AST utility is chiefly about boosting party DPS. For example: If you take the amount of DPS an AST boosts over the course of an entire fight due to Balances, you could "mash it together" with AST's personal DPS to find their personal contribution. Or to reword, the boosted DPS of the DPS roles because of Balance could be added to AST's overall DPS total since it was their utility that aided the DPS.

As DreamWeaver aptly explained in a similar thread, casting enough Cures to generate a regular supply of Lilies and Confession stacks precludes using many GCDs for DPS.

It would seem that you either heal efficiently and maximize your GCD availability for DPS actions (as is status quo) or you Cure your ass off and hope to do something useful with your RNG stacks. Option B does not sound like a recipe for success.

[Reiryuu]

The so what, as you eloquently put it, is that White Mage can throw out enough personal DPS to make up for the fact that it doesn't bring utility since, aside from shields, SCH and AST utility is chiefly about boosting party DPS. For example: If you take the amount of DPS an AST boosts over the course of an entire fight due to Balances, you could "mash it together" with AST's personal DPS to find their personal contribution. Or to reword, the boosted DPS of the DPS roles because of Balance could be added to AST's overall DPS total since it was their utility that aided the DPS.

How do you DPS if you need to use cure I and cure II to gain lilies? You can't have lilies and DPS... the mechanic just doesn't work that way at least in its current state.

[RhettSerris]

As DreamWeaver aptly explained in a similar thread, casting enough Cures to generate a regular supply of Lilies and Confession stacks precludes using many GCDs for DPS.

It would seem that you either heal efficiently and maximize your GCD availability for DPS actions (as is status quo) or you Cure your ass off and hope to do something useful with your RNG stacks. Option B does not sound like a recipe for success.

I'm not saying that you need to completely commit to burst heals or regen heals, you could mix them! Medica 2 is invaluable for example, I don't think I could've lived without it on WHM. Even with the lily system I'd still use it. But you could replace Regens with Cures if there's no tank busters coming down the pipeline, right? You don't necessarily even have to use more than one Cure. Is it vastly less MP efficient? For sure. Maybe even painfully so. But there's a lot of instances where Regen contributes more to overheal than actual healing, I believe.

How do you DPS if you need to use cure I and cure II to gain lilies? You can't have lilies and DPS... the mechanic just doesn't work that way at least in its current state.

The same way you do with regens, I'd think. You minimize the amount of GCDs you have to dedicate to actually healing as best you can using Cure and Cure II. White Mage got some awesome MP management tools with 4.0 so I think that will help it be more liberal with its casting too.

[Reiryuu]

The same way you do with regens, I'd think. You minimize the amount of GCDs you have to dedicate to actually healing as best you can using Cure and Cure II. White Mage got some awesome MP management tools with 4.0 so I think that will help it be more liberal with its casting too.

But you don't get lilies from regens or medica either. Just with cure 1 or cure 2. Furthermore, the Assize and Asylum recast timer is only reduced for *critical hits* on cure 1 and cure 2 and even then only 20% of the time.

[Cynfael]

I'm not saying that you need to completely commit to burst heals or regen heals, you could mix them! Medica 2 is invaluable for example, I don't think I could've lived without it on WHM. Even with the lily system I'd still use it. But you could replace Regens with Cures if there's no tank busters coming down the pipeline, right? You don't necessarily even have to use more than one Cure. Is it vastly less MP efficient? For sure. Maybe even painfully so. But there's a lot of instances where Regen contributes more to overheal than actual healing, I believe.


The same way you do with regens, I'd think. You minimize the amount of GCDs you have to dedicate to actually healing as best you can using Cure and Cure II. White Mage got some awesome MP management tools with 4.0 so I think that will help it be more liberal with its casting too.

If you want to actually benefit from the Lily system and PI, you need to cast a LOT of Cures. Not Medica II or I, not Regen, not Asylum, not Tetragrammaton, not Assize, not even Cure III. Cure and Cure II. Period. These are the only two skills that generate Lilies and Confession stacks as of the media release build of SB.

If you want to play WHM well and use your toolkit intelligently, you use Cures judiciously as opposed to casting them wastefully.

You don't get to play a balanced, efficient WHM who mixes up their skills if you actually want to make use of this new system. That is largely why you see people very concerned.

[Parawill]

As DreamWeaver aptly explained in a similar thread, casting enough Cures to generate a regular supply of Lilies and Confession stacks precludes using many GCDs for DPS.

It would seem that you either heal efficiently and maximize your GCD availability for DPS actions (as is status quo) or you Cure your ass off and hope to do something useful with your RNG stacks. Option B does not sound like a recipe for success.

To add to this, using current content as a reference to raid development in Storm Blood, a competent healer (not just White Mage) attempts to convert as many healing GCDs into offensive GCDs, and they also use and plan their oGCDs so that they're used as much as they can for the most impact. With this in mind, lilies blooming will be infrequent and rare, and there will be very rare scenarios in which we'll even get three lilies for the single-oGCD Spear as WHM should be using their oGCDs frequently and tactfully.

[DreamWeaver]

But you could replace Regens with Cures if there's no tank busters coming down the pipeline, right? You don't necessarily even have to use more than one Cure. Is it vastly less MP efficient? For sure. Maybe even painfully so. But there's a lot of instances where Regen contributes more to overheal than actual healing, I believe.

As a WHM vet to another WHM vet, please don't say this dirty filthy disgusting phrase ever again. I need a bath now after reading that phrase.

[SuzakuCMX]

Frankly, screw Freecure. It's one of the most useless passives since WHMs rarely cast enough Cures to proc it frequently.

I don't get this forum