#DeleteSmn aka "Here's where you can shove your Bahamut" thread

[SomeRandomHuman]

Of course in 4.0 they're removing the subjob req and cross class skills, so it's entirely possible that's the first step towards removing classes entirely in 5.0
So then starting smn towards more summon less dot, could be prep for a more 'summoner' job in 5.0 if they ditch classes.

But as of current information, classes are still in the game and the spells and abilities are still drawn from there. So as long as classes are in game, their "core" skills still remain in those classes. You can't do anything but jump, battle litany, and pointlessly use blood of the dragon if not for the class skills. If you're going to ignore the class and try to say buff/nerf, stick to the jobs from 3.x onwards for now.

[SomeRandomHuman]

Except that summoner is already headed in that direction with the new changes. Just because it stems from the arcanist sub class doesn't mean they won't be Summoners that focus on their summons to deal damage. I'm not really following your logic of "Because arcanist".

Only use job actions in the dragoon menu and tell me how successful you are. No true thrust combo, impulse combo, none of that. By ignoring arcanist its basically what you're saying. Arcanist is still currently in the game, so its class actions are still just as "core" as the lancer's class actions. That's what I'm saying. They're not balancing everything together properly, but gutting the old and trying to make the new the only thing that matters.

[Selova]

Only use job actions in the dragoon menu and tell me how successful you are. No true thrust combo, impulse combo, none of that. By ignoring arcanist its basically what you're saying. Arcanist is still currently in the game, so its class actions are still just as "core" as the lancer's class actions. That's what I'm saying. They're not balancing everything together properly, but gutting the old and trying to make the new the only thing that matters.

I never said anything about ignoring the sub-class that summoner stems from. I'm not saying that they should ignore the abilities Summoners get from arcanist,I'm saying that they should feel more like actual summoners whree their egis have more impact. Their kit is perfectly fine, I'm not saying they should remove their dots that they gain from art, just that i'd like to feel like a actual summoner with more damage and impact tied behind summons instead of so much emphasis put on their strong aoe dots. That is why i feel like the new mechanic with demi-bahamut is a step in the right direction of feeling like a actual summoner.

[Khaidal]

My question is, if they're going to make SMN more pet focused, what are they going to do for the people who like being dot mages? Will they get a new job to suit their needs?

[AsakuraVN]

I'm fine with all the numbers & pet focus but is no one gonna be bothered with the punishment we get if we miss an aetherflow? This is already the case in HW, but it gets even worse in SB, since SMN now entirely relies on bahamut trance for burst dmg.

Even expert players will miss an aetherflow once in a while due to silly hand movement, let alone new players. Yet you can potentially waste 2 stacks of AF & 1 DWT session for a silly mistake. If they wanna raise the skill floor, why not make AF not losing a stack or not able to cast at all if you happen to use it on something useless? I feel like that's just QoL stuff we've been missing since the start of HW...

[alimdia]

Also, our pet skills were also nerfed (except Ifrit).

That's topaz and emerald carbuncle, not titan and garuda.

Carbuncles always had lower potencies than egis.

[Hayward]

All you amateur mathematicians out there realize that all this is still subject to change until the 16th, right? Right?

[Fyce]

I'm fine with all the numbers & pet focus but is no one gonna be bothered with the punishment we get if we miss an aetherflow? This is already the case in HW, but it gets even worse in SB, since SMN now entirely relies on bahamut trance for burst dmg.

Even expert players will miss an aetherflow once in a while due to silly hand movement, let alone new players. Yet you can potentially waste 2 stacks of AF & 1 DWT session for a silly mistake. If they wanna raise the skill floor, why not make AF not losing a stack or not able to cast at all if you happen to use it on something useless? I feel like that's just QoL stuff we've been missing since the start of HW...

Since Bane is garbage, you should hit it less often anyway. Thus, less miss.

Since you have only two DoT, not keeping them up would be very detrimental to your DPS, so, that plus the buff to Tri-disaster should lessen the number of times where you miss Fester.

Another thing to note is that now, you can't get more than 3 stacks. Would they be stacks of Aether flow or trail. Not more than 3 total. It's way easier not to get confused and pressing Aetherflow too soon or something like that.

Last thing, you should burn your Aetherflow way more quickly now that Fester and Painflare are on 5s cooldown. Meaning that the case where you'd press Aetherflow before having finished using your previous stacks should also happen less often.

So, yes, the punishment is worse, but it should happens less frequently.

[AsakuraVN]

snip

Case in point, a mistake is something we shouldn't do to begin with, & by nature, has silly reasons, like a simple mis-click or wrong reflex. There's nothing to learn from that, it happens & it always will.

My point is, the dev already said themselves that they'd prefer rewarding higher skill play than punishing mistakes. Then why not try to improve the QoL instead of worsening the punishment? Even if it should happen less, making each of those mistakes even more impactful isn't exactly any better & completely goes against their design point.

[Paladinleeds]

Case in point, a mistake is something we shouldn't do to begin with, & by nature, has silly reasons, like a simple mis-click or wrong reflex. There's nothing to learn from that, it happens & it always will.

This. So much this. The amount of times I've swapped from one class to another, gone into a dungeon, then reflexed off my previous class (eg going from SCH to AST, my bars are set up differently to account for the nuances of the 2 jobs), causing me to hit the wrong button and use the wrong ability... is unreal...