#DeleteSmn aka "Here's where you can shove your Bahamut" thread

[Greedalox]

That's all great...

Except for the fact they START as Arcanists...

I've seen a lot of things on these forums, but I've never seen someone fight for class rights over jobs. Heh.

#Pugilistrights

[Silverquick]

I've seen a lot of things on these forums, but I've never seen someone fight for class rights over jobs. Heh.

#Pugilistrights

Heh... yeah I never in my wildest dreams ever though I would be defending the Arcanist side... until now... and I saw the results of this possible abortion.

[KarahaBaruha]

Also, our pet skills were also nerfed (except Ifrit). Here's the comparison and the source. Keep in mind that now when you glamor your pet, the skills seem to change to a carbuncle skill with the same properties.

GARUDA:

Wind Blade: 110 pot ->s Gust: 90 pot
Shockwave: 90 pot + knockback -> Backdraft: 80 pot + knockback
Ariel Slash: 90 pot AoE -> Downburst: 80 pot AoE
Contagion: Extends dots 15s -> Shining Emerald: Enemy Mag Dmg taken +10% for 15s
Ariel Blast we don't have information on.

TITAN:

Rock Buster: 85 pot with Enmity+ -> Gouge: 70 pot with Enmity+
Mountain Buster: 70 pot AoE with Enmity+ -> Shining Topaz: same
Earthen Ward: 20% damage on pet decrease for 20s -> Curl: same
Landslide: 70 pot with 2s stun -> Storm: 60 pot with 2s stun
Earthen Fury we have no information on.

IFRIT:

The only change was to Radiant Shield which now gives the enemy a +2% physical damage taken debuff for 4s


https://m.imgur.com/r/ffxiv/O9JIv

[Selova]

That's all great...

Except for the fact they START as Arcanists... not Summoners...

Summoner is what you learn LATER... after you find out about it and become one... It didn't mean you suddenly and mysteriously forgot all the the things you learned as an Arcanist.

But that's beside the point... you can't expect to totally nerf and remove arcanist from the job... and suddenly expect balance... or viability.

I'm not really arguing about the lore behind the job, it's just that when I think of a summoner I don't think of a caster that's primary strength is aoe dot damage.

[SomeRandomHuman]

I'm not really arguing about the lore behind the job, it's just that when I think of a summoner I don't think of a caster that's primary strength is aoe dot damage.

Then your entire argument is invalidated sadly. Summoner stems from arcanist so it therefore is never going to be the summoner you imagined.

[Silverquick]

I'm not really arguing about the lore behind the job, it's just that when I think of a summoner I don't think of a caster that's primary strength is aoe dot damage.

I do get that,

But honestly here... all they really had to do, was rename what the powers are called... so Bio was called something like "Flames of Ifrit" or something like that, change the graffic to fire... once they reached like 30th level or something, and people would never even notice. Heck they could rename Fester to "Garuda's Piercing Screech" or something like that, and people never even notice. Bane could be something like "Fanning the Flames".

They didn't need to totally rework the job and potentially break what wasn't broken before.

Hell they could even have given us a shiny new graphic like Bahamut now... and never changed a thing and half the people would have gone

"Oh Cool its so Summoner-y now!! I have a Shiny new Bahamut!!"

And never done a thing outside that or ever break anything while trying to "fix" it. And no possibility of breaking the jobs attached to it.

That was really all some people wanted in the first place that were concerned with "Image".

[Senliten]

it's not something that really takes much thought. They show painflare and fester right next to each other in a video and fester does more.
also it doesn't make any sense at all to have 2 skills with the same cooldowns and resource cost and the only difference is one is aoe
also 150/300 makes more sense than 150/200 and 2 is right next to 3 on the keyboard

Is easier also to backspace numbers and letters out too, seeing you just hold one button. But putting SE's keyboard input proficiency aside, a quick question then; Shouldn't it be painflare getting the change then? Given they already kinda shafted AoE, wouldn't it be more akin to think that given PF is an AoE spell, that it would get the change over fester? Seeing it is showing the lower dmg of the two. The only difference with PF is that it has the 150 POT in PvP description out of it, and it left in the 200 POT. So whats not to say instead PF is 150 perhaps? Has anyone tested just using fester with one dot to test that 150 POT you'd get and see if there is a near similarity with the two? While the norm has always been 'dot up first for max fester', it are these small details which are also valuable in figuring out just which one is actually in need of change, that should also be tested or looked into. Can't just blindly assume because of 'play style'.

E: Watching Mr. Happy's vid again when casting Ruin 3 also brings the thought it might be PF into question. Seeing R3 is hitting for near same amount as what PF would, and it is also a 150 POT, there were also times in the vid he did not have the destructive ruin buff up where these casts were made, and also was not in trance. So again, with that in mind, why wouldn't it be PF getting the change?

[seraseth]

Then your entire argument is invalidated sadly. Summoner stems from arcanist so it therefore is never going to be the summoner you imagined.

Of course in 4.0 they're removing the subjob req and cross class skills, so it's entirely possible that's the first step towards removing classes entirely in 5.0
So then starting smn towards more summon less dot, could be prep for a more 'summoner' job in 5.0 if they ditch classes.

[Fyce]

-snip-

Three things:

1) About Ruin IV procs. It's a 15% chance, every 3 seconds. This means one proc every 6.67 skills. In short, you should expect an average of one Ruin IV proc every 20 seconds. That's 3 procs a minute.
So, your assumption about getting at least 2 procs a minute to make up for the loss is completly doable. In fact, you'll, on average, get 3 procs and not 2, meaning that the advantage is actually to the new rotation.

2) You forgot about the new buff from Tri-disaster. Hai Hai thinks it's around 15%. But I'll take the worst case and say it's 10%. I know it's not much, and I know it won't affect the outcome a lot, but it'll definitly help reducing a bit the gap between now and in Stormblood.

3) Probably the most important thing: DoT upkeep and DoT clipping. I know that you only did "paper maths", but the reality of things is that the new system, which allows for far more Tri-disaster usage, and the fact that we only have two DoT, both at 30 seconds, is a really, really good improvement on DoT upkeep and clipping. Every SMN below the 75th percentile should -at worst- pull the same numbers as before, but more likely do way better.
I mean, if a 60-70th percentile guy like myself can pull a 91th percentile on A12S with a DoT management so bad that the top 1% would probably say something like "at least you try... kind of..." after puking a little in their mouth, then I can guarantee that this factor of DoT upkeep and clipping will have a huge impact on most SMN players.

[Selova]

Then your entire argument is invalidated sadly. Summoner stems from arcanist so it therefore is never going to be the summoner you imagined.

Except that summoner is already headed in that direction with the new changes. Just because it stems from the arcanist sub class doesn't mean they won't be Summoners that focus on their summons to deal damage. I'm not really following your logic of "Because arcanist".