We're all DDs now >.>

[Youkulm]

Why is this a relevant talk 17 days before SB...

It's not really.... but same reason people stand on street corners holding signs that say the end is near. Just to hear themselves complain and yell.

did lvling roulette earlier, ended up in gubal library normal.

had to kick the tank after the first boss, cos the tank was the ultimate derp and talking to him didnt help.

we finished the dungeon as 2 dps and 1heal because we didnt get a replacement tank at all. I was a scholar and i still dished out quite decent dps, despite having
to juggle between healing 2 dps and myself and dpsing.

Luckily I was with a mnk and a nin. Mnk used fists of earth and tanked, nin used shadewalker on him and smokescreen on me whenever possible...it was fun and quite beautiful to see how we all worked together <3


bottom line: didnt have a tank, still could dps.

I had a similar experience once, it was lots of fun. Haha

[Naelle]

My stance on this has always been the same: don't join raid groups if you aren't focused on doing everything you can to win (maximizing dps as tank or healer). If we're talking about dungeon roulettes then who really cares if the healer isn't firing off nukes? There are different levels on content and some of them will require more from you. Just my $0.02.

[Lambdafish]

Why is this a relevant talk 17 days before SB...

Changes to cleric stance sparked this

[Xylas]

start the fight in tank stance and do a round or two of the enmity combo. Then pop over to the dps and help the team out until the Buster comes then pop it on to help the healer not have to heal you as much.

Grit takes 1/3 of my mana to turn on. Even with Blood Weapon (which automatically turns off when you turn on Grit) a good Dark Knight isn't going to be able to go hard on DPS and then switch Grit on for a tank buster. Just... no. Leave tank stance on and give the healer some breathing room to DPS if you think it's important for everyone to DPS. Warriors can stance dance all they want since they don't lose their stacks when they swap. But honestly, I think we're all sick of Deliverance warriors exploding because they have no HP and don't have the healing bonus. Also, Sword Oath is a joke. A less than 100 potency double attack on auto-attack? Garbage. That's not DPS.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Grit takes 1/3 of my mana to turn on. Even with Blood Weapon (which automatically turns off when you turn on Grit) a good Dark Knight isn't going to be able to go hard on DPS and then switch Grit on for a tank buster. Just... no. Leave tank stance on and give the healer some breathing room to DPS if you think it's important for everyone to DPS. Warriors can stance dance all they want since they don't lose their stacks when they swap. But honestly, I think we're all sick of Deliverance warriors exploding because they have no HP and don't have the healing bonus. Also, Sword Oath is a joke. A less than 100 potency double attack on auto-attack? Garbage. That's not DPS.

That isn't how Dark Knight works. You can eat any tank buster currently in the game with just defensive cooldowns and your healers will be perfectly fine. For more advanced practice, you can even pick up adds without ever turning Grit back on. It does take a little doing though because Dark Knight doesn't generate nearly the aggro Warrior does, but it's more than doable. As for Warriors exploding in Deliverance. You haven't played Warrior in a while, have you? I can eat Punishing Heat completely bare. In fact, the optimal strategy is for the Warrior to Holmgang it and heal themselves via Thrill, Second Wind and Bloodbath. That same buster doesn't even cut a Dark Knight's HP in half, provided they have Dark Mind up.

And Sword Oath a joke? The difference between a Paladin in Shield and Sword can be upwards of 50% DPS.

[Kitfox]

Even with Blood Weapon (which automatically turns off when you turn on Grit) a good Dark Knight isn't going to be able to go hard on DPS and then switch Grit on for a tank buster.

Yes, they're able. Maybe they won't do as much damage as staying they would completely out of Grit, but they sure will do more than staying in Grit all the time.

Also, Sword Oath is a joke. A less than 100 potency double attack on auto-attack? Garbage. That's not DPS.

Sword Oath is the most powerful DPS stance any of the tanks have. Do your research.

[Xylas]

Yes, they're able. Maybe they won't do as much damage as staying they would completely out of Grit, but they sure will do more than staying in Grit all the time.


Sword Oath is the most powerful DPS stance any of the tanks have. Do your research.

Sword Oath is garbage, and always has been. Potency of 75 on auto-attacks vs 2% crit per stack on Abandon and an additional 5% overall damage. You really think people don't want PLD only because of the magic mitigation? Warrior has been top and will stay there.
You're not reaching your DPS potential if you're not using Dark Arts as much as possible while Blood Weapon is up. If you're using Dark Arts you're not going to have the mana to be turning Grit on and off. If you're using Blood Weapon simply to get the mana back to turn on Grit you're dropping your DPS.

[saber_alter]

Grit takes 1/3 of my mana to turn on. Even with Blood Weapon (which automatically turns off when you turn on Grit) a good Dark Knight isn't going to be able to go hard on DPS and then switch Grit on for a tank buster. Just... no. Leave tank stance on and give the healer some breathing room to DPS if you think it's important for everyone to DPS.

DRK's toolkit has more than enough utility to mitigate damage outside of grit. two unconditional damage reducers, and a da'd 30% vs magic on a 60 second cd. Even then, i have never had problems stance dancing on DRK. Prediction is part of the job.

Warriors can stance dance all they want since they don't lose their stacks when they swap. But honestly, I think we're all sick of Deliverance warriors exploding because they have no HP and don't have the healing bonus.

their fault for forgetting that they have a perfectly good defensive stance.

Also, Sword Oath is a joke. A less than 100 potency double attack on auto-attack? Garbage. That's not DPS.

here is a comparison of dps for all tanks post 3.2 changes. from the data collected, switching to sword oath increases a paladin's dps by around 200.

[odintius]

I always dps when able which is mostly im dpsing, healing is a after thought in most cases if you kill everything fast enough. /shrug I wouldn't mind some more intensive healing phases in dungeons what we have now is a joke for healers imo....

[Kitfox]

Sword Oath is garbage, and always has been. Potency of 75 on auto-attacks vs 2% crit per stack on Abandon and an additional 5% overall damage.

Sword Oath is +10-12% of PLD damage when turned on the last time I checked it (fflogs). That's more than Deliverance with its 5% and small crit boost. But I concede, in practical sense it's the second most powerful offensive switch, just because Defiance on WAR is so punishing. It's still more powerful than DRK dropping Grit though. (No Grit +20%, SwO 15%+10%)

You're not reaching your DPS potential if you're not using Dark Arts as much as possible while Blood Weapon is up. If you're using Dark Arts you're not going to have the mana to be turning Grit on and off. If you're using Blood Weapon simply to get the mana back to turn on Grit you're dropping your DPS.

Of course, you but said to keep the Grit on. Keeping Grit on is a bigger DPS loss than not having it on and then turning it on for a tank buster if needed. Here, your words, not mine:

Leave tank stance on and give the healer some breathing room to DPS if you think it's important for everyone to DPS.