We're all DDs now >.>

[BlackironTarkus]

This game is no more "DPS focused" than any of the other MMO's I've played where healers are capable of dealing damage. Every game I've played as healer, the healer's maximum healing output is vastly above most content.

In some of those games, the healers also have what would be the bards and machinist's jobs in XIV. Utility and fun little gimmick spells that can make a party progress faster if used correctly. In XIV, they have damaging abilities and often those abilities hit hard enough to not scoff at.

It just comes down to that point where you're not pressing any buttons at all, kind of sitting around waiting for something to happen, and I find it lazy.

If DPS and Tanks are expected to be constantly pressing buttons then I expect the same out of my healers, and for it to help in some way - just as you'd boot a DPS for spamming AOE on single target or a tank for not holding enmity.

[Vhailor]

I keep seeing so many posts on the tank forums, healer forums, and general page about how tanks are not 'stance dancing' enough and their dps is low. Also how healers who don't also 'stance dance' and dps enough should/will be kicked. This huge focus on personal dps for every single role in the game is discouraging, and I understand it is due, mainly, to how much everyone overgears everything now. But the mentality will stick, and be detrimental to the game.

I love healing, and I dps as much as I can so I'm not bored, but there are some who choose to not dps as a healer and to me, that's fine. Their role in the game is 'healer' - a spot they chose and one that is meant to heal. Should they dps? Maybe, if efficiency is top priority. But if it isn't fun to them, and this is a GAME, why play something in a way that isn't fun anymore when all they want to do is heal. So, I get those players (though I'd be totally bored if I didn't dps).

The same with tanks -- though to a little lesser degree since dps is built into even their enmity combos to some degree. However, people berating tanks for spending too much time in tank stance and not optimizing their dps are also missing the point. Is aggro held? Do mobs attack anyone but the tank? Does the tank pick up adds (if needed)? Again, as with healers, extra dps is always nice, but really shouldn't be 'expected' of the role.

Indeed, tanks and healers are being called out for lack of dps, when the ACTUAL dps of the game cannot be called out for often sub-par dps since to do so would almost certainly involve parsing and could result in a ban. So here we have tanks and healers who have roles with dps as a merely incidental and extra (mostly - tanks, see above) benefit being harassed for not doing what the true DPS should - and the true DPS being unable to be called out for the exact same thing.

At this point - everyone should play a true dps class as it seems 'damage per second' is all anyone cares about in roles anymore.

I have never once gotten the impression that people in a DF setting are bitching about tanks and healers not stance dancing 'enough'. I've seen push-back against people who refuse to switch to a DD stance for any reason, but that's a very different thing.

What people are really getting at with these complaints is that a significant percentage of people who play FFXIV are simply lazy. They don't give two flying f*cks about playing their job well, and they inconvenience everyone as a result. For damage dealers, this behaviour is a bit more difficult to spot; it manifests itself as a lack of AoE dodging, or half-arsed rotations, or a complete lack of situational awareness (AoE on single targets, single-target attacks on large groups). For healers and tanks, on the other hand, the behaviour is quite visible - and involves players who twiddle their thumbs for half a fight.

That's why people care. It's not that they feel healers and tanks should DD, so much as they feel that healers and tanks should make an effort. When no one needs healing, or when hate is firmly established, that means dealing damage. That's all there is to it.

It's important to keep this in mind, because you've misdiagnosed the issue with your post. Nobody's unhappy with the grey zone that you have described (healers stance-dancing, but perhaps not as much as they could, or tanks spending a bit too much time in tank stance). They're unhappy with the extremes, and that has been clear in virtually every discussion on these forums. Don't mischaracterize the issue; it can lead to misunderstandings and unnecessary tension.

[Laerune]

Its SE"s fault, they make content where healers dont have to heal alot, which encourages the community to let healers do dps aswell (otherwise, they will just stand there), yet when they design content, they wont take the damage that the healers deal into account when creating the encounters. Like many, I too main a healer, because i like to heal, but with this game, you dont need to heal alot, which means the healer will either stand there and do nothing or they contribute by doing damage.

Personaly, I can understand why some healers are not happy that they need to do damage, afterall, they picked the a healer class, because they wanted to do something other then deal damage, but I can also understand that people are not going to be happy if those healers are just going to stand there and do nothing, while they are being active.

Dps players underpreforming or being lazy, is a big problem, such a big problem that one of the major reasons why we have these battle changes is to close the gap between the core and casual dps players. I agree with the OP, that the past weeks, we have seen alot of threads about lazy healers, while there is a lack about dps who are underpreforming. I think we should have a good discussion in a thread about low dps. Why are there so many bad dps players? Why arent there alot of people (could it be, because majority of the players are dps?) talking about this? and how can we help those players improve?

The game feeling so dps focused, made me ask myself, why play a healer that deals damage, if I can play a damage dealer that can deal alot of damage? This is why I am changing from healer to damage dealer in Stormblood.

[Belhi]

This game is no more "DPS focused" than any of the other MMO's I've played where healers are capable of dealing damage. Every game I've played as healer, the healer's maximum healing output is vastly above most content.

In some of those games, the healers also have what would be the bards and machinist's jobs in XIV. Utility and fun little gimmick spells that can make a party progress faster if used correctly. In XIV, they have damaging abilities and often those abilities hit hard enough to not scoff at.

It just comes down to that point where you're not pressing any buttons at all, kind of sitting around waiting for something to happen, and I find it lazy.

If DPS and Tanks are expected to be constantly pressing buttons then I expect the same out of my healers, and for it to help in some way - just as you'd boot a DPS for spamming AOE on single target or a tank for not holding enmity.

My experience in healing in other MMOs differs from yours but that is besides the point.

If healers are supposed to dps that should be properly integrated into their design rather than tacked on to the side. Healers have lots of flashy healing mechanics and synergy but their dps has no interaction with that synergy and consists of a couple of dots and one button to spam over and over again. If Healers are supposed to have a hybrid role they should be designed with that in mind.

And they aren't.

Either its not intended or their design is flawed. Regardless in a practical sense its an issue and they need to design things to work one way or the other.

[Rin_Sato]

So since you're fine with healers not dpsing does that mean its ok to afk as a sch since the pet does the healing for them, like theyre still healing all the same, so if nobody is dying then its fine yeah?

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

Snip?

We're talking about PUGs so... whatever? Honestly even if I watch everyone like a hawk, the only performance I care about is my own, as that is what I have full direct control over. Everybody else? Bare minimum expectations: We not dying, I ain't caring.

[NanaWiloh]

Healers and Tanks need to learn their main role first before they start mixing in damage abilites. A healer who can't heal properly has no business stance dancing and the same goes for tanks. Learn your main role then learn how to weave in damage when and if you can.

[TaranTatsuuchi]

The reason everyone is expected to put as much damage as possible?
The game's encounter design.

It's simply that the way the content is designed, there's a point where there's nothing but to increase the damage you're doing.
As long as you have enough mitigation to survive, as long as there's enough healing to survive, then any extra is wasted and the rest of the available time should be used to kill faster, as that's really the only other options available.



Sure, keep the party healed, buffed, and safe.
But after that, the only other useful thing to spend global cooldowns on is damage.

Always Be Casting.



Someone did a test a while back where they didn't do any damage just to see how much actual downtime they had.

Yesterday I did some testing on how it really is like to only heal in expert roulette, which I think is a good example because it's content probably ran by majority of player base this discussion is relevant to.

I queued to expert roulette as WHM and we got Xelpathol. In addition to me, the party consisted of a WAR who had never tanked the dungeon before (no endgame experience as WAR), a BLM (his Savage job, currently on A11S progression), and a DRG (no endgame experience as DRG). So quite a random party composition with people more or less familiar with their roles in that dungeon.

The WAR pulled as much as he could at the time (not knowing the dungeon as tank he failed this a couple of times) and I would only use my healing abilities. This was the result, my every single heal cast for the whole 21 min dungeon run:

- Regen x24
- Medica II x16
- Asylum x7
- Assize x4
- Cure II x5 (between pulls, not during them)
- Tetra x4

So in addition to Medica II, the only thing I actually had to cast in the whole dungeon was Cure II, which I did a total of 5 times (between pulls, not during them). Everything else was instant cast abilities. I also used Eye for an Eye on tank and sometimes Esuna, and I cast stoneskin on everyone between pulls.

Even with this little use of healing, my overheal was 35,9%, so the actual healing requirements for this dungeon are even lower. I was active 17% of the whole dungeon while the rest of my group members were active 72-77% of the dungeon.

This is a perfect example of the low healing requirements in the game and how it causes a huge activity difference between a healer who doesn't DPS and their group members. On that run I did not contribute nearly as much as my group members, in fact I was using /icam and doing /mandervilledance while they were actually making an effort. If it would have been the tank or a DD only being active 17% of the time and dancing and idling for the rest, they would have been removed from the party, but for me, some people would actually argue I was doing just fine.

I took a video of the whole run and uploaded it in case someone's interested. This is the final boss fight, during which the only things I actually cast were 3 Medica IIs. Other than that, I used Regen (4), Assize (2) and Asylum (2). Here's the direct link to the fight: https://youtu.be/jBgMe5uHPsE?t=17m17s

TLDR: Not DPSing as a healer means you're just being carried by your group members for over 80% of the dungeon time.

[Ralts]

Why over-react when healers have only less buttons to push to deal damage. Less whining, more team supporting. A bit on the offensive "effort" on your side also counts as supporting, because this specific game is built on that.

[Belhi]

Does no one else feel that a situation where a healer will be using 3-4 buttons total for 75% of their time, abilities which have literally no synergy with any other aspect of the Job including the other dps skills, isn't a problem? 90% of a jobs mechanics used only 25% of the time and the rest is two DoTs and a button spam with no interactive mechanics.

Do people seriously not see this as an issue?

Give me a Job designed for actively dpsing and I will happly embrace the role. We are being given Trucks and being told to drive formula one tracks. Sure we can do it and hell the Trucks might even be passably fast but its a clunky ride and its not what the Truck was built for.