We're all DDs now >.>

[Greedalox]

While it's understandable how people would get the impression that the game only has Tanks, Healers and DPS- all while fitting neatly into the boxes assigned to them, most classes don't actually do just that.

You're playing an online game and therefore are subject to the choice to conform to the communities expectations- or don't. But pretending like communities (That's what online gaming is, particularly MMO's) shouldn't have expectations from individuals is unrealistic of human gatherings.

"At this point - everyone should play a true dps class as it seems 'damage per second' is all anyone cares about in roles anymore."

I know you're venting, but what is this line supposed to bring?

[MirielleLavandre]

I know you're venting, but what is this line supposed to bring?

It is supposed to focus a little attention on how 'dps centered' the game has become, in my mind to it's detriment. I've been playing since beta, and I never have seen such a focus on personal dps. Tanks were never expected to be out of tank stance as much as possible, healers were never expected to dps or be kicked. Extra dps was just that, 'extra and nice to have' but hardly something to be ridiculed or kicked/harassed for not doing. Outside of Coil, these 'healers not dps-ing enough' threads didn't exist, and raid progression is a totally different discussion since of course different expectations should exist there. I'm talking about the general "the healer didn't dps enough in my leveling roulette so let's kick them / the tank was in grit that whole boss fight - he/she sucks" mentality of today.

[Greedalox]

It is supposed to focus a little attention on how 'dps centered' the game has become, in my mind to it's detriment. I've been playing since beta, and I never have seen such a focus on personal dps. Tanks were never expected to be out of tank stance as much as possible, healers were never expected to dps or be kicked. Extra dps was just that, 'extra and nice to have' but hardly something to be ridiculed or kicked/harassed for not doing.

I don't think it brings the light you're trying to shed on it, considering you're not doing any content worth one's salt with only 8 "pure dps". But this topic is just going to be another shit storm like the other multiple first page threads strewn on these forums.

[MirielleLavandre]

I don't think it brings the light you're trying to shed on it, considering you're not doing any content worth one's salt with only 8 "pure dps". But this topic is just going to be another shit storm like the other multiple first page threads strewn on these forums.

The 'We should all just play pure dps classes' was sarcastic and meant to be taken in that sense - I thought it was kind of evident?

[Greedalox]

The 'We should all just play pure dps classes' was sarcastic and meant to be taken in that sense - I thought it was kind of evident?

Exactly, it was just meant to point out that you're being a tad dramatic. Wasn't that evident?

It's just so hard to relate with people who play the "It's just a game" card only to make a big deal out of people telling them how to play. That's more or less where I'm coming from.

[Faliandra]

It is supposed to focus a little attention on how 'dps centered' the game has become, in my mind to it's detriment. I've been playing since beta, and I never have seen such a focus on personal dps. Tanks were never expected to be out of tank stance as much as possible, healers were never expected to dps or be kicked. Extra dps was just that, 'extra and nice to have' but hardly something to be ridiculed or kicked/harassed for not doing.

its because other games are less scripted, more random, more heal-intense and/or super mp-intense.
Remember those old MMORPGs where healer had to sit down inbetween casts to recover MP faster? Cos I do. Yeah,you werent healing all the time,but boy,you sure had to sit down to get your MP back.

Meanwhile this game gives us POWERFUL heals with less MP costs and less incoming/very predictable damage all at once.

To change the dps meta, youd have to make serious changes to the game's core mechanisms.

[ErikMynhier]

its because other games are less scripted, more random, more heal-intense and/or super mp-intense.
Remember those old MMORPGs where healer had to sit down inbetween casts to recover MP faster? Cos I do. Yeah,you werent healing all the time,but boy,you sure had to sit down to get your MP back.

Meanwhile this game gives us POWERFUL heals with less MP costs and less incoming/very predictable damage all at once.

To change the dps meta, youd have to make serious changes to the game's core mechanisms.

War flashbacks man. Mana was so precious tanks had to squat to heal HP and MP because the healer didn't have the MP to waste healing in a non-combat situation. Games crawled back then, at least we don't have to drag like that anymore.

[MirielleLavandre]

Yeah,you werent healing all the time,but boy,you sure had to sit down to get your MP back.

Haha - this brings back memories of sitting between pulls in the dunes or Qufim... *panic ghoul train*

[Pells]

Remember those old MMORPGs where healer had to sit down inbetween casts to recover MP faster? Cos I do. Yeah,you werent healing all the time,but boy,you sure had to sit down to get your MP back.

With the spellbook open so you couldn't even see the fight? Yes.

[KisaiTenshi]

It is supposed to focus a little attention on how 'dps centered' the game has become, in my mind to it's detriment. I've been playing since beta, and I never have seen such a focus on personal dps. Tanks were never expected to be out of tank stance as much as possible, healers were never expected to dps or be kicked. Extra dps was just that, 'extra and nice to have' but hardly something to be ridiculed or kicked/harassed for not doing. Outside of Coil, these 'healers not dps-ing enough' threads didn't exist, and raid progression is a totally different discussion since of course different expectations should exist there. I'm talking about the general "the healer didn't dps enough in my leveling roulette so let's kick them / the tank was in grit that whole boss fight - he/she sucks" mentality of today.

It's amazing how often people would rather cut their own nose off to spite their face.

Instead of maybe just going with who they choose to PUG with and avoiding unnecessary whine about DPS or not to DPS, these people would rather waste a half hour waiting for a new healer or tank just to get those extra DPS.

Like, I play the way I play, and I do not see any "downtime" that people say exists. The closest thing to "downtime" is when there is a single trash mob with high HP, otherwise the time required to stance dance and pull of a rotation does nothing to speed up the process when that monster will die in 5 seconds anyway. There are no 4-man duties that have downtime. If you're seeing downtime, congratulations you have a good party and maybe the tank/healer will have their hotkeys setup to take advantage of that.

When there is a single boss mob, you have to pay a lot more attention to the surroundings,

a) Adds - if adds spawn, pause healing until the tank grabs them, or bring the adds over to the tank so they don't have to drag the boss over to you

b) Buffs - Stoneskin and Protect are cast once, then don't bother again. However self-buffs like Divine Seal or Shroud of Saints can be cast whenever the CD ends

c) Clean - Remove the debuffs on other players with Esuna, unfortunately there is no consistancy as to which debuffs can be removed, so casting Esuna is often trial-and-error

d) Debuffs - Repose (how many people still use this?) is pretty much useless in a party because everyone just keeps hammering. It is useful in single player combat, but the other other debuffs from Aero/Stone/Holy DO NOT REQUIRE CLERIC STANCE.

e) Enmity - Healing generates Enmity, a bad healer ignores this and thus makes the Tank do more work. A good healer will only be healing while Enmity is green to avoid pulling the mobs away from the tank. Regen, Medica and Medica II pretty much tell the mobs "come get me"

f) Field - To avoid the AOE's, sometime even requires flipping the camera around and move forward to avoid "gaze" based AOE's.

g) Group - Who's taking damage? Can I click on them and throw Cure? are they nearby? Is something in my line of sight? Are they being tossed in the air?

h) Heal - The healer's primary concern is healing the tank unless the tank is taking very little damage in tank stance. That is the only condition where a healer may decide to try DPS. But that is the exception, not the rule.

Someone can not just stand still and cast cure. If a duty is not very demanding, yes you can conceivably do the entire dungeon by nothing but spot healing, but that ends when there are boss mechanics that punish standing in one place. This is why the SCH who has a healing pet can looks like they are appearing to do nothing, because their primary role pre-SCH was DPS, and those DPS skills are still there. Those DOT's don't generate nearly as much enmity as healing does. The healing pet in fact creates the illusion of far more downtime since the healing fairy on auto-pilot gives the SCH more opportunity to do damage negation through shields.

The Tank on the other hand is not supposed to need to heal themselves, and needs to make sure the Enmity is red for all mobs. If someone is pulling a mob away, you're not generating enough Enmity.

DPS is not supposed to be concerned with anything but throwing damage, and require very little situational awareness other than avoiding AOE's in the field. If they are smart they will pause their DPS if the enmity is indicating it will be drawn to the DPS instead of the tank.

People give way too much grief to Healers and Tanks, which are the same jobs that you always have to wait in the queue for, and people just aren't getting that their toxic behavior creates this. If you pick healer or tank, but primarily DPS, you inevitably will fail more duties or have people quit after wiping once.

I have seen more tank's ragequit after one wipe, and a lot of that comes back to trying to force their play style on others.

24-man raids, tend to have a few carries because you can't just sit there and wait for someone good, but you will get called out on "doing nothing", If Square-Enix was serious about keeping the game interesting and fun for the most amount of people, they would just just start nerfing the hard content in ways that your gear no longer matters.