PSA - Cleric Stance and vote kicking

[Belhi]

You didn't adress the real problem. i.e. : When there is nothing to heal, the healers should use this downtime in a useful manner, like dishing out some damage.

That's the only thing reasonable people are asking, if during an entire fight you need to heal then no problem you don't have the time to do damage but if you only need to heal during 50% of the fight you should do something (not nothing) during the other 50%.

That isn't the real problem and its short sighted to think it is. There is a critical design issue with healers and honestly she did touch on it.

Your saying "you should just do it this way" without paying any attention to why people have an issue with this. If you don't deal with the core issue all you do is put people who want to play healers off healing.

Healers shouldn't just be standing around doing nothing. They shouldn't be in a position where that is happening. They shouldn't have a situation where the Job design philosophy has shaped them for one type of gameplay but the actual game design is pushing them into another style of gameplay.

Imagine if you could only attack the an enemy once every 10 seconds or so and had to spend the rest of the time mashing a one button heal and maintaining a HoT. You would justifiably complain that it was rubbish DPS gameplay. You don't play a dps to spam heals.

[Tharne]

That isn't the real problem and its short sighted to think it is. There is a critical design issue with healers and honestly she did touch on it.

You think it's a critical design issue but maybe it's intended that way. Not a lot of games have healers be completely dedicated to healing during the entirety of a fight.

[GDFletcher]

OK then let me get this brain fart into some focus, you as a community will now KICK healers not DPSing inside a dungeon 4.x onwards. OK then enjoy the long queues as most pure healers say screw this and stop looking for duty and just either re-roll or just stick with premade.

How about Blackmages get kicked for not using the MP share on tanks that need MP for their mass taunts so that they can do a speed run
How about we kick DPS for not using Diversion because why would they want top enmity when they are throwing out all that DPS
How about we kick players for not saying Hello at the start of a dungeon

Seriously... WTF is up with the community? The healer damage will be a little bit higher than it is now with Cleric off but no where near as high as cleric on, so I would say their DPS would somewhat on par or little more than a PLD with Shield Oath on. They are HEALERS for gods sake. You have enough DPS in your group as it is!

[Anzaman]

OK then enjoy the long queues as most pure healers say screw this and stop looking for duty and just either re-roll or just stick with premade.

If that means that players who AFK 80% of the dungeon only go in with premade groups, I'm fine with that.

[Faliandra]

OK then let me get this brain fart into some focus, you as a community will now KICK healers not DPSing inside a dungeon 4.x onwards. OK then enjoy the long queues as most pure healers say screw this and stop looking for duty and just either re-roll or just stick with premade.

good riddance.

[Zojha]

Not a lot of games have healers be completely dedicated to healing during the entirety of a fight.

I'm not sure you really can. It's a core issue of healing as such.

If you can avoid the damage, you do not necessarily need to heal it (though you often can), you only need to learn how to avoid it. If you cannot avoid the damage, then healing comes in to counter that.

That means two things:
a) Healing required will depend on whether people have learned to avoid the damage or not
b) Healing required when mechanics are followed is fixed

The latter also sets a minimum gear/resource and skill requirement needed to get that healing out, from which follows that any player above that minimum will naturally have varying degrees of downtime. Simply put, the more healers actually need to heal, the less accessible healing becomes. This is part of what causes the issue: SE wants healing to be accessible.
The prior means that if you don't want mechanics to be unforgiving, you need to pile a certain amount of free healing on top to be able to deal with occasional mechanical failures. This alone will put healers into downtime mode when the mechanics are actually followed.

As such, downtime can't be entirely helped and the two main flaws of healing in this game can be summed up as:
1. It's too accessible
2. Downtime activities do not match the core fantasy

That can be changed at a whim. But it requires SE to step up. And they're not willing. Until they are, this debate will purrsist.

[Khemorex]

snip They are HEALERS for gods sake. You have enough DPS in your group as it is!

Those are people who dont have any understanding for someone else , they think only on their own thing , going over dead internet bodys if they have to. :P
They are gona try to twist anything , just to make their point ^^ because its the internets. Where u can just rage and rage on without any sense of humanity :P

They are just looking for something to bitch at , its just the best to report and kick them if u encounter such persons :P
Nothing more annoying then to play with some internet kid , whos raging all the time :P

[Felis]

So after reading through all the pages just some small cents from me since most have been already said (and I am kinda shocked at some posts): So why does Yoshida on one hand say that healers dont need to DPS and on the other hand they introduced DPS at the healer part of the newcomer hall? I mean this is at the beginning of the game and they already tell you in that "tutorial" that you should cast some damage spells if the other players dont need heals.

"You can", not "you should". And only if you don't have anything else to do at that time (not only healing, but also buffing, pet management or playing with cards).
Neverless healer damage only count as a extra bonus, because the contents are balanced around healers not doing damage.

[GDFletcher]

No the issue in this thread is simply the mindset that anyone should be kicked for their play style, we ain't even seen what the numbers are what possible damage they can contribute and the community is already trigger happy to kick people for not even damaging... What if the nerf to ALL healers is there damage is not even remotely plausible and that SE have made the healers the way they intend.

That means a lot of the Duty groups now will be punting players for no real reason than to find another healer that is in the same boat ie not producing enough "practical" dps that they would just consider healing and maintaining other utility moves such as mitigation effects and or temp buff (AST).

[GDFletcher]

Yes most healers now Focus Target the Tanks mob and lob the DOTs on there which help tick over.

But again you can't witch hunt players before you have even seen the figures, who is to say in 4.0 the fight mechanics change somewhat where now the healer would have more work on their hands as mob hit harder and introduce more mechanics that effect those standing behind. There is a season why the Paladin got a "Wings" effect which makes them now have a boss or mob face the group for a reason when it goes again the flow that you always turn a boss away from a group.