Please do something about mentor roulette instant-leaves

[Vidu]

Personal attacks aside, he's not wrong. There's no more reason to think that giving the players the ability to inflict penalties on other players would be abused any more than the kick function would be. Which is to say that yes, it would be abused, but not to an extent where it outweighs the benefits. Back when kick was first added, there was a ton of moaning and groaning about how trolls would now rule the game. It never happened. Neither would it happen if a player-inflicted penalty were added.

What are the benefits though? And how does that fix the problem we were discussing here which is people leaving instantly?

I dont think we should give players the ability to punish each other - a kick is not a punishement, its removing someone from your party who makes the dungeon unpleasent (for whatever reason). Its a tool to ensure you have a good experience - not to sour that experience for someone else.
Reports are not a punishment either - they are reporting an issue to an authority thats able to look into the issue and decide wether a punishment is in order and what that punishment should be.

Seriously, the only reason people are asking for the ability to inflict punishments themself is revenge - they got screwed over, so they want to screw that person in return now. And thats nothing we need in this game - you have kicked and blacklisted the person that was making your day unpleasent and your experience less enjoyable, so they're not a bother of yours anymore.

[Kurando]

To be fair, it's not just mentors that can be guilty of leaving a duty that just started. I've come across plenty of players who just didn't want to do particular dungeon without even trying. Ok fine, some duties really are just annoying like Aurum Vale or even the Research Facility (guessing because of the level sync), but is a temp 30min ban really worth the hassle as pretty much all duties can be done in less time than that. Definitely if someone isn't performing well enough making the run unnecessary difficulty then a leave can often be the only resort, (or a vote abandon whichever is preferable).

In all, anyone can become a mentor but you don't need to be a mentor to become a nuisance to a party.

[Feidam]

Seriously, the only reason people are asking for the ability to inflict punishments themself is revenge - they got screwed over, so they want to screw that person in return now. And thats nothing we need in this game - you have kicked and blacklisted the person that was making your day unpleasent and your experience less enjoyable, so they're not a bother of yours anymore.

We are going to have to agree to disagree. Your own post here indicates that the mentor's insta drop of the dungeon screws people over. And you are right; it wastes their time. But that's ok you can blacklist the person. A person who has by your own admission earlier in this thread agreed to utilize a higher standard of behavior. So we must accept bad behavior on their part because we can blacklist them and do nothing to curtail the behavior as doing so is petty revenge.. Apparently making people accountable for their actions is petty. We aren't talking about mentors who tried to help and then left. We are talking about mentors that just don't because they join and left instantaneously.

[Vidu]

We are going to have to agree to disagree. Your own post here indicates that the mentor's insta drop of the dungeon screws people over. And you are right; it wastes their time. But that's ok you can blacklist the person. A person who has by your own admission earlier in this thread agreed to utilize a higher standard of behavior. So we must accept bad behavior on their part because we can blacklist them and do nothing to curtail the behavior as doing so is petty revenge.. Apparently making people accountable for their actions is petty. We aren't talking about mentors who tried to help and then left. We are talking about mentors that just don't because they join and left instantaneously.

First: This isnt only about mentors - we established already that everyone drops out of duties they dont like - there is more than just the mentor roulette to place someone in a duty they dont want to run. So can we please stop pretending that its only mentors screwing other people over?
Second: I spoke against a punishment decided by the other people in the party. The report-system and punishment by a more or less neutral third-party is important and should stay in place. But we dont need some sort of lynchlaw and certainly not one that would excuted in the heat of the moment.
Just look on how different and how badly people want to punish a person whos leaving a dungeon! It seems to range anywhere between 2 hour lookout of duties to lifelong ban from the game!

People are held accountable - but by the GMs if their missbehaviour is brought to their attention. You have always the option to fill out a report - and if thats to much effort for you and you rather just inflict a punishment yourself that is indeed nothing but petty revenge. If you cant bother to fill out that report and rather just hit the ban-button thats nothing but "Oh you screwed me over? I will screw you over now!"

Also: How would you punish a person leaving the dungeon? I mean... they're gone in that moment, you cant kick them and pick a harsher penalty or something like that (as suggested earlier in this thread). Would you fill in their name in a form and hit "ban this person from the DF/game for as long as I see fit"? Could you do that with just any person, regardless if you've actually met them and they did something wrong? Because if you dont want that, you'd need some to check those ban-issues... and that would be someone like the GMs, making those bans actual reports (with a punishment suggestion)...
People can and should only be hold accountable by the GMs, thats why they're there. We have to trust that they're indeed giving out proper punishments, but I rather trust them than having players scrweing each other over by being able to give out penalties.

[Feidam]

I never said I wanted to dole out the punishment myself. Check my earlier responses. You'll see that I said players should report and gm's should dish out the punishment. However your posts are coming off like just blacklist them it solves the problem. Sure for that one person. You still have others being affected by this behavior. Later on though. No player should be able to dole out punishment. if I had to choose though my thought would be suspensions from being able to use the mentor queue. On first punishment, second punishment longer queue suspension, the third you blocked from mentoring and lose everything earned that is mentor related such as the mount.

[Nicodemus_Mercy]

Social benefits, which are a powerful reward in any context.

By all means elaborate on what exactly these "social benefits" are.

[Anarnee]

I think that if someone is a mentor and they leave a mentor roulette, and get the penalty they should have their mentor status revoked for a while.

I say this as a mentor.

I don't wear my crown unless I'm doing the mentor roulette, and I'm sick of seeing mentors that don't at least try to stick it out and teach, just wearing it for vanity, It is pretty ridiculous.

I'll get someone with mentor status leave if I queue into AV without even trying, and then I'll get a run with all newbies that goes completely smooth.

Or in one case, we got Titan EX and one of the other mentors, a MCH just AFKed. :/

[Niwashi]

Most of the time I leave a dungeon is because of the jump only dance healers or very but very poor dps you don't pay my sub.

At least you have to have tried the run before seeing that sort of problem. The bigger issue is people who leave as soon as they enter just because it's not the dungeon they were hoping for. (So basically, they want the rewards of Roulette without taking the "willing to run any of these dungeons" pattern that roulette is based on.) That's the sort of leaving that people want a harsher penalty for.

So how about if you leave before having attempted the dungeon, you get a higher penalty than if you play a while, decide the group isn't very good, and then leave?

(They'd have to decide on a way to measure what constitutes a real attempt, but I'm sure they could come up with that part. I think for vote abandon they just go by the amount of time in the instance, so they could even just use that if they want to keep it simple. But since that could lead to people AFKing by the door until the timer is up, a better measure might be time in combat or number of combat actions or some such thing. Even just having been in combat during that run would indicate some involvement before leaving.)

[Niwashi]

I think that if someone is a mentor and they leave a mentor roulette, and get the penalty they should have their mentor status revoked for a while.

Is mentor roulette a daily bonus, like leveling roulette? Or does it have a bonus each time you run it?

If the former, I think a reasonable rule could be that if you Leave during a Mentor Roulette run, that uses up your daily chance at it, and you can't try again for the bonus until the next day.

[Anarnee]

Is mentor roulette a daily bonus, like leveling roulette? Or does it have a bonus each time you run it?

If the former, I think a reasonable rule could be that if you Leave during a Mentor Roulette run, that uses up your daily chance at it, and you can't try again for the bonus until the next day.

Its a daily roulette like leveling etc.

Though I think the penalty should be much steeper than not being able to get Gil, or tomes, I really think they should not be allowed to be a mentor, use the NN, use the crown or the roulette for a week. XD Maybe that's harsh but I'd be ok with it.