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  1. #1
    Player
    Shurrikhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    12,867
    Character
    Tani Shirai
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by zXr View Post
    Simplified systems lead to automation, aside from that taking away the 'choice' to mess up and still do some amount of damage or mess up and freak out that you stopped doing damage...or realize it after the wipe because you are a 1h playing fool!

    But hey they could implement a 'shame bunny' variant for all jobs!
    Simplified systems =/= intuitive systems. The OP's aim seems to more closely resemble the latter. Removing absolute false choices does not simplify a system. It just puts up fewer (even if minor) roadblocks.

    If the "combo" skills had reason to be used out of combo, and then we removed that ability, then such would impair or outright cripple gameplay surrounding those abilities. But there is no such reason. Each combo is in itself one decision, essentially one ability. There's nothing loss in making its controls follow its design.

    Now, I'd rather each skill be usable separately with varying synergies that allow for various strategic "open" combos, but short of that, why reject an intuitive system for what's actually being given. Are we too in love with the concept that we're given multiple skills even while hesitant to have any additional thought or strategy expected of us as to make use of them? If combos work for you, that's the design. The rest is just making the UI actually fit, rather than hinting at something more and being unwilling to provide it -- almost with mocking contempt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vespar View Post
    So you want the game to become a mindless button masher?
    How is 1, 2, 3; 1, 4, 5; 1, 4, 6 any less mindless than 1, 1, 1; 1, 2, 1; 1, 2, 2?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaikiKiyoshi View Post
    If they are so mindless why even ask for a change? All I'm seeing is another thread asking for a solution to a nonissue because some people are apparently so mindless that they can't even string together combos as they currently are. Let's just allow bots because that's where this line of thinking ultimately leads. "Oh em gee I can't press so many buttons for combos, why can't we just have one button to press so I can keep picking my nose while I play??" 5.0 rolls around "OH EM JAY pressing 1 button is HAAARD, let us use bots so I can watch my little pony while the game clears savage for me!!"

    Please delete thread.
    I have no issue handling every key on my three bars. With my Caps turned into a Right Alt, it's even nearly comfortable. The issue is future proofing and, frankly, that the option is obvious given how the skills are currently treated in game. True Thrust is not a separate decision from Full Thrust. Once you've started the chain, you complete the chain. So how does it warrant 4 keys to do 1 function (pure DMG + 15s BotD)?

    It's a matter of future-proofing. Unless SE wants to cut out even more skills that DO actually have tactical weight or decisions behind them, our bars are going to fill up, and the amount of binds will become uncomfortable to access all of—not in Stormblood, and, if they skimp on raw ability count, not even the expansion after. But it will happen. So why would you not take the opportunity to remove redundancies? Is Warrior made more interesting for having to use two different slots for Fell Cleave and Inner Beast (unless one wishes to macro them)?

    In the brief example I gave, you go from 1-6 to 1 & 2 being used, for the exact SAME spread of abilities, and the SAME number of possible choices accessible at each juncture. How does taking up another 4 buttons at all times without them ever being usable at all times increase complexity? By your view, every Monk must already be mentally impaired, because (OH NO!!!) they can't actually flub 2/3s the amount of skills you can. And guess what? They at least have a skill that makes all their weaponskills simultaneously available. No one else does.

    tl;dr

    Why? Button bloat.
    (5)
    Last edited by Shurrikhan; 05-25-2017 at 11:02 AM.

  2. #2
    Player
    DaikiKiyoshi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    343
    Character
    Daiki Kiyoshi
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Shurrikhan View Post
    How is 1, 2, 3; 1, 4, 5; 1, 4, 6 any less mindless than 1, 1, 1; 1, 2, 1; 1, 2, 2?

    If they are so mindless why even ask for a change? All I'm seeing is another thread asking for a solution to a nonissue because some people are apparently so mindless that they can't even string together combos as they currently are. Let's just allow bots because that's where this line of thinking ultimately leads. "Oh em gee I can't press so many buttons for combos, why can't we just have one button to press so I can keep picking my nose while I play??" 5.0 rolls around "OH EM JAY pressing 1 button is HAAARD, let us use bots so I can watch my little pony while the game clears savage for me!!"

    Please delete thread.
    (2)

  3. #3
    Player
    Welsper59's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    2,427
    Character
    Eros Maxima
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Archer Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by DaikiKiyoshi View Post
    If they are so mindless why even ask for a change? All I'm seeing is another thread asking for a solution to a nonissue because some people are apparently so mindless that they can't even string together combos as they currently are. Let's just allow bots because that's where this line of thinking ultimately leads. "Oh em gee I can't press so many buttons for combos, why can't we just have one button to press so I can keep picking my nose while I play??" 5.0 rolls around "OH EM JAY pressing 1 button is HAAARD, let us use bots so I can watch my little pony while the game clears savage for me!!"

    Please delete thread.
    Basically this. I don't think people understand how their suggestions are pretty much a regurgitation of the same thing they have criticism for. I'm guessing it's because it's their idea, therefore it somehow functions differently lol. I don't think their point is that it's hard, just that it's what they see as unnecessary. For the same reason that they think it's unnecessary though, the contrary of it is not even remotely needed. To realize that though, people need to take a step back and view their suggestion as an outsider (objectively). If the devs feel the need to change it, fine. If they don't, fine. It's a non issue being promoted as though it were game changing.
    (1)

  4. #4
    Player
    Mholito's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    1,316
    Character
    Mholi'to Lihzeh
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by DaikiKiyoshi View Post
    If they are so mindless why even ask for a change? All I'm seeing is another thread asking for a solution to a nonissue because some people are apparently so mindless that they can't even string together combos as they currently are. Let's just allow bots because that's where this line of thinking ultimately leads. "Oh em gee I can't press so many buttons for combos, why can't we just have one button to press so I can keep picking my nose while I play??" 5.0 rolls around "OH EM JAY pressing 1 button is HAAARD, let us use bots so I can watch my little pony while the game clears savage for me!!"

    Please delete thread.
    Even with consolidated combos, it isn't gonna make you do good dps. You'd still have the same amount of skills to use, and you'd still have to know when to use them in order to maximise dps. It also isn't gonna use your abilities for you.
    Sure, random "You-don't-pay-my-sub" dps number 5819 might end up doing 1000 dps instead of the 200 he did before, but that's still not gonna compare to the 4000 dps done by those that know how to play their job. Meanwhile, it's also gonna free up hotbar space, which means people can pack their skills closer together, so they won't need to do some weird finger gymnastics to reach rarely used skills anymore, and the extra space leaves room open for adding more interesting skills in the future.
    (5)