Mandatory Combos

[Vespar]

Part of the reason I love XIV is that what I press matters and sets me apart from another job w/ the same gear! Its not just a mindless zergfest! You actually have to think about where and when to use your actions. A good many of the people who mess up or dont perform combos correctly do so because they dont READ their tooltips and set up their bar accordingly or they just dont pay attention and mash buttons..

And while we're on a similar subject, if we make it so that actions execute in succession just by mashing the same button over and over again (like they intend to do with PvP), I feel like the 'fun' would get sucked out of it.

If they took away the ability to correctly or incorrectly perform combos, I would lose interest. Their wouldnt be any challenge in it. "Just mash a button whenever you want! it wont matter!"
NO! I want the CHOICE of how I play and I try to play well because I don't want to be a run of the mill player.
Shorten the core vs casual playing field if they must, but don't make us cookie cutters of everyone else!

[Ogulbuk]

Part of the reason I love XIV is that what I press matters and sets me apart from another job w/ the same gear! Its not just a mindless zergfest! You actually have to think about where and when to use your actions. A good many of the people who mess up or dont perform combos correctly do so because they dont READ their tooltips and set up their bar accordingly or they just dont pay attention and mash buttons..

If they took away the ability to correctly or incorrectly perform combos, I would lose interest. Their wouldnt be any challenge in it. "Just mash a button whenever you want! it wont matter!"
NO! I want the CHOICE of how I play and I try to play well because I don't want to be a run of the mill player.
Shorten the core vs casual playing field if they must, but don't make us cookie cutters of everyone else!

Being able to follow a glowie ant trail on your icons don't really make you that great at deciding what you are doing either, so don't try patting yourself that well on the back for that.

Having actions require combo status to even activate still does not mean you don't get to chose what else you do next, especially if combo system was expanded with it. Multiple combos with multiple situational usage would make combo chain selection an actual choice. Allowing players to use the third step of a combo for just 100 potency with no benefit is just terrible game design.

Either it should be mandatory, or there should be some benefit from doing so (fewer aspects of the action tied to combo action requirements.)

[Vespar]

Having actions require combo status to even activate still does not mean you don't get to chose what else you do next, especially if combo system was expanded with it. Multiple combos with multiple situational usage would make combo chain selection an actual choice. Allowing players to use the third step of a combo for just 100 potency with no benefit is just terrible game design.

Combo actions that enable based off various conditions are there for a reason. Its part of the way that most jobs function. And yes, they do require some THOUGHT on the part of the user, and they can be what makes one player differ from another. Not just in terms of dmg, but also in play styles.

As Bard, I could apply Straight shot which lasts for 20 secs. If it procs right away and Straighter Shot becomes available, I could choose to toss it out right away to do the extra dmg or I could choose to wait until my buff is close to going down to refresh it when I need to rather than having to recast straight shot which takes more time. That's up to me to decide.

Or take BLM... Firestarter is a huge deal for BLM and its a fundamental part of how BLM is meant to be played. In the later levels, casting Fire can cause 'firestarter' to proc which allows an instant casted Fire3 and equates to more dmg. If we were to just remove firestarter altogether BLM's would be forced to just spam cast Fire 3 over and over without the benefit of an instant ability that they could use for more dmg, or hold onto for a second and use in case they know they are going to have to move, etc...

My point is those combo-enabled actions & abilities exist for a purpose already. They have added benefits, you just have to think about what they are. If you cant figure out the right way to use them, then thats on you!

[Ogulbuk]

Combo actions that enable based off various conditions are there for a reason. Its part of the way that most jobs function. And yes, they do require some THOUGHT on the part of the user, and they can be what makes one player differ from another. Not just in terms of dmg, but also in play styles.

You and I define thought very differently. 1-2-3 is not exactly thinking. The main reason they are still there is the game never got rid of them after actual-thought-requirement was introduced.

As Bard, I could apply Straight shot which lasts for 20 secs. If it procs right away and Straighter Shot becomes available, I could choose to toss it out right away to do the extra dmg or I could choose to wait until my buff is close to going down to refresh it when I need to rather than having to recast straight shot which takes more time. That's up to me to decide.

.... yes... that is for you to decide, but that is not a Combo Action.

My point is those combo-enabled actions & abilities exist for a purpose already. They have added benefits, you just have to think about what they are. If you cant figure out the right way to use them, then thats on you!

You are missing the point: those are not combo actions you seem to describe. Warriors, Dragoons, Paladins, those are combo actions, and they are not "added benefits". Using those actions without the combo is always a self-dps nerf. Repeating Heavy Swing over and over non stop will always be superior to ever using one of the Warrior combo "boosted" actions out of combo.

[Vespar]

You are missing the point: those are not combo actions you seem to describe. Warriors, Dragoons, Paladins, those are combo actions, and they are not "added benefits". Using those actions without the combo is always a self-dps nerf. Repeating Heavy Swing over and over non stop will always be superior to ever using one of the Warrior combo "boosted" actions out of combo.

So wait. you want for example WAR's 1-2-3 actions to be removed in favor of just mashing 1 button for Heavy Swing, etc? So... like what they are going to do with PvP in 4.0?

So you want the game to become a mindless button masher? I hope you have a mechanical keyboard because that poor '1' key is gonna need replacing alot.

And the combo actions weren't meant to be used solo. Thats how XIV has been since release. Why are we griping about that now? That being said, I dont think it needs to become mash 1 > 1 > 1 > 1 > 1 repeatedly until our eyes bleed from it. I like how the combos work. I already have seen plenty of people who dont read their tooltips or set up their bars properly, spamming actions out of order. Mashing 1 over and over may make it easier for some of them sure, but its still not going to make them a good player. All it will do is make the rest of us bored as all hell.

It sounds like to me the real issue here is players not READING and organizing their bars in a way that favors using their "combo".

[Ogulbuk]

So wait. you want for example WAR's 1-2-3 actions to be removed in favor of just mashing 1 button for Heavy Swing, etc? So... like what they are going to do with PvP in 4.0?

No. I said it in my OP, and added another possible approach in replies to you:

Either
A) make it so that the activation of a combo action step requires the combo action to validate (2 wont even be clickable if 1 wasn't the previous action)
B) Make it so that there is a reason for using 2 outside a combo (additional effects should not require combo action, only the damage increase should.)

So you want the game to become a mindless button masher?

The more I read this, the more I think it may as well, if replies are going to mindlessly reply to posts...

Also, I was unaware that just using Heavy Swing over and over on WAR was superior. I dont play WAR but that seems pretty boring as hell if you ask me... How's that work out for you holding hate over AOE classes like SMN?

You need to work on your reading abilities, or maybe my English just sucks and I cant communicate this properly. A perfectly valid possibility, the later.

Heavy Swing > Heavy Swing > Heavy Swing
Will ALWAYS be better than:
Storm Path > Heavy Swing > Heavy Swing

Because Storm path out of combo potency is only 100, while Heavy Swing potency is always 150.

At no point will using Storm Path outside of a combo be a thought. It's not a choice. You either use it in combo, or never use it because it's useless otherwise. It's not the same as deciding to time Straight shot.

[Vespar]

Either
A) make it so that the activation of a combo action step requires the combo action to validate (2 wont even be clickable if 1 wasn't the previous action)
B) Make it so that there is a reason for using 2 outside a combo (additional effects should not require combo action, only the damage increase should.)

My apologies for misunderstanding you and I updated my previous post accordingly. Unfortunately, I was not quick enough before you responded to it.

I atleast get this much. Mayhaps you should try out MNK as it does kind of force you to use a combo in the way you describe (or atleast to some degree). But that being said, I dont feel like every job that uses a 1-2-3 combo-style needs to have this method of execution. The combo actions already light up in "glowing ant trail" you described. So, it should be somewhat visually obvious what to do next.
Really, it mostly sounds like you want people to learn to read their tooltips and perform their combos like they should. I firmly believe this should be up the player to know what their actions do and adjust accordingly. XIV does not need to be a mindless button masher just to cater to the folks who already dont care enough to read.

[Powercow]

A) make it so that the activation of a combo action step requires the combo action to validate (2 wont even be clickable if 1 wasn't the previous action)

The reason for that is the entire reason video games rely on failstates to BE a video game. If someone literally can not make a mistake, then the game is boring. It's like saying a shooter shouldn't let you fire unless your crosshairs are over the enemy and the shot will hit.

B) Make it so that there is a reason for using 2 outside a combo (additional effects should not require combo action, only the damage increase should.)

This would require an insane amount of rebalancing of abilities and jobs in general. The idea that, yeah, you CAN'T just throw up Storm's Path whenever you feel like it on your first hit makes it more important that you keep it up by doing the entire combo. It's a much greater investment of time to actually land Storm's Path if it's at the end of a 3-chain combo. In the case of warriors specifically, it's impossible to keep up the slashing debuff, storm's path, AND do your highest damage/threat combo regularly.