I am so sick of Thok ast Thok.... (Nerf request)

[Maeka]

Content that is *required* to do anything in the game whatsoever (yanno, like an ENTIRE EXPANSION!?) should be easy so that the majority of the player base can realistically clear it, especially if it is also included in a roulette. If you end up with one or two bosses in a roulette where wipes are too common then people stop running the roulette in question because they are tired of ending up in that fight. Then you get into situations where players start getting locked out of content, and that's not good for anybody involved either.

As for Steps of Faith, I would even consider that easier than Ravana, by far. Even if you're the tank trying to tank the mobs. That, and you know, I've yet to wipe on SoF. I've wiped a couple times on Final Steps of Faith, but never twice in the same duty.

Ravana, on the other hand. This is what, 5-6 times now, there were 2-4 wipes in the same duty? This is really getting old.

[Maeka]

The "Bad groups" are CONSISTENT. It has to do with the boss having mechanics you see nowhere else but in optional raids. And again it isn't just "kill adds", it's "Somehow magically get everybody in a PUG to focus-fire one or two specific adds out of 6+ that are all named the same thing".

The last several times I've gotten stuck in Thok ast Thok, there've been 2+ wipes, and/or people disbanding. Apparently, I'm not the only person who is tired of it.

[Ageofwar]

As for Steps of Faith, I would even consider that easier than Ravana, by far. Even if you're the tank trying to tank the mobs. That, and you know, I've yet to wipe on SoF. I've wiped a couple times on Final Steps of Faith, but never twice in the same duty.

Are we talking about the current Steps of faith or the non-nerf (as it got originally relase) Steps of Faith which was so hard you could have easily failed it a number of times if the group was not talking to each other? (I sence you never tried Steps of faith in these "dark days")

[Maeka]

Talking about current SoF. If SoF was that way back then, then the nerf was indeed justified and I'm glad they nerfed it. That kind of crap belongs in optional raids, not being Beef Gates to an entire expansion. I don't believe in locking huge swaths of content (again, like an entire expansion) behind stuff that people just wipe over and over and over again on.

Like it or not, there's always been a place for casual players, the older people with slower reaction times, impaired people, or early teenagers and they pay the same monthly fees you do. Trying to lock such people out of the game because you think they don't deserve it is just stupid, and it has never been healthy for any MMO that has tried this.


If the game were designed the way people in this thread seem to want it..... well, look at what happened to Wild Star. I remember when that first was advertised and when it came out, people were going "YAY AN MMO THAT ISN'T EASY!" .....well, guess what? Looks like the hardcore crowd is much in the minority; it didn't do very well. I remember when Cataclysm came out in WoW, Blizzard tried to cater to the Hardcore crowd... guess what? People left in droves. They put easier content in Mists of Pandaria and the subs shot right back up. Then they tried to go harder with Warlords and it did a nosedive again.

[micropanther7]

I feel your frustration OP, me and another healer had a group that struggled with the phases of that fight, we marked stuff to kill first, and marked places to stand... it was one of those instances where I met a fellow healer with the same stubborn mindset as myself, wanting to get them to clear it and not quit... alas too many dropped out after a few fair wipes. I agree with you that there is always a place for more casual players, people with slower reaction times and not everyone is at the same level of play, but nerfing isn't the answer, I feel the JP servers do it better, learning in PF with like-minded people and at your own pace, or with friends/fc, then attempting DF once you feel comfortable with it.

[Aurou]

...should be easy so that the majority of the player base can realistically clear it...

A majority of the player base has already cleared this content, so this comment is a self defeating argument in itself. Ravana was semi-challenging without being mind numbing easy. Think Titan HM, which I might remind you, was a pain back in it's day, and is now a joke. If people are wiping, and you've cleared it clearly... You should explain the fight. Whether you like it or not, it falls on the people who have cleared the fight to help those who have not. Even if you're not a mentor.

What this conversation has already boiled down too is you saying the content needs a nerf, because select groups can't "Git Gud."

[Mejingjard]

If the game were designed the way people in this thread seem to want it..... well, look at what happened to Wild Star. I remember when that first was advertised and when it came out, people were going "YAY AN MMO THAT ISN'T EASY!" .....well, guess what? Looks like the hardcore crowd is much in the minority; it didn't do very well. I remember when Cataclysm came out in WoW, Blizzard tried to cater to the Hardcore crowd... guess what? People left in droves. They put easier content in Mists of Pandaria and the subs shot right back up. Then they tried to go harder with Warlords and it did a nosedive again.

This again, you really are stubborn with this crappy argument (not especially you, everyone who comes up with that crap).
We don't say we want savage content everywhere, We are saying we don't want training dummies as opponents everywhere except savage.

Again, if killing a bunch of adds in time, when the Main Tank can kill one quickly enough while tanking ravana, is considered hard, then even a training dummy whould be a challenge for some.
Ravana is NOT hard. Killing stupid adds with low HP is NOT HARD. If 4 dps, an OT can not handle such a easy task, they are just plainly bad.
Stop asking to nerf everything. I'll say it again : the more you nerf, the worst the average skill lvl evolve. And the less the new content will be interesting.
You got paired with really bad players because I almost never spent that much time in Ravana, even when I got 7 newcomers in my party.

As for the Original SoF, it was not hard again, you just had to pay attention to what the PNJ where saying. Grabing a canon, shooting things with it... is that so hard to notice canon's attack was a aoe of 2000 damages, spammed every 2 seconds, wich is far stronger than any dps could achieve at that time? Even now I see players stuggling with the nerfed SoF. Many players managed through it in one timer for their first tries.
But naaaah, everything must be completed without even looking at the screen. Why is it so hard to focus for 10 minutes on a fight? If you dont want to do it, then don't play instead of complaining and ruining the game for all who enjoy having more things to do than hitting a defenseless foe.
There is an old saying : To achieve victory without peril, we triumph without glory.
The only thing nerfing content do is increasing the gap between players, and making it even harder to please everyone for future content.
A last time : we are not wishing for savage content, we are wishing for more Ravana or Ozma content. They are easy if you simply focus on the fight. We dont want everything to be a training dummy nor a savage boss. There is a lot of options between those two extremes.
Stop being weaklings dwelling in mediocrity. Raise you head and step up your game instead of crying for nerfs as soon as you can't faceroll something.
Content being in the main scenario is not an excuse for not having to stick your fingers out of your butt.
A lot of player managed to do it. Why should the game cater to lazy players's exigences ?

Remeber well that the more you nerf, the less content will be thrilling. That will lead to "ellitist" players to leave. Those same players who writes guides, make the economy of the game run, develop tools, you know, those players that do so much for the community...
Then will stay only lazy/bad players, impervious to skilling up, and content catered to them : boss that does nothing. Players get bored, raising at each other throats for litteraly nothing.
The game should not cater to such selfish request. If they do not want to put effort in such easy fights as ravana, they don't deserve a clear. Period.

BTW : Wildstar was not hard when you understood that interrupting telegraph gave you a 150% damage bonus. Players were just insanely bad (and this is due to the artistic direction, far more appealing toward casual players). Besides, it has always been advertised as a Hardcore targeted game.

[Moomba33]

Interestingly I've had the opposite experience with Bismark and Ravana TC. I remember wiping a lot in Ravana when it was first released and Bismark being smooth whereas these days when they pop in Trial Roulette I see way more wipes in Bismark.

Both Trials take more care than a lot of others in the roulette as players are synced. You also have to deal with having incomplete ability sets and new players who may be struggling with learning to use new skills. However I have to agree with others in this topic that they are not that hard overall.

If you don't feel like dealing with bad groups in Ravana you can always take the penalty and do something else in the meantime.

[bounddreamer]

This is funny to me because I just got Thok ast Thok last night for trial roulette. I queued by myself last night after FC mates logged to play other games.

So there's me, a WAR who queued by myself, and 7 random people.

And everyone did just fine. We did end up getting one sword during add phase but it was a butterfly in Tapasya range and I didn't see it in time (I can solo butterflies with Fell Cleave). Although everyone else had multiple vulnerability stacks, the group managed to clear just fine. I shared Blinding Blade with the MT a few times just cause he had so many stacks, but it was otherwise a pretty standard run.

I've only had one Thok ast Thok run that was so bad in the past few months that someone had to drop.

Have you tried explaining mechanics to groups that wipe? I've done that with virtually every trial in the game and there is always improvement. People want to clear content. Sometimes they just need more information so that they understand how.

[Pence]

I need clarification....is this about Ravana (Story) or Ravana (Extreme)......I'm pretty sure both can be easily cleared with a half party....