Why Couldn't SMN summon everyting like Bahamut?

[Averax]

then bahamut wouldnt be as special

[Shougun]

then bahamut wouldnt be as special

I don't think it has to though (ruin Bahamut's special feeling I mean, doesn't have to ruin it). The summons in FF history - specifically the ones with CGI all had pretty epic events and Bahamut usually felt badass still~ Like even when you could whip it out Bahamut felt pretty cool in FFX (although I think some people started to favor Anima for reasons).

[CaptainLagbeard]

I might care about SMN more if I could have a full on Primal Ifrit or Garuda on my side, even temporarily...

But it would eat all of the framerate in raids.

[Silverquick]

I don't think it has to though (ruin Bahamut's special feeling I mean, doesn't have to ruin it). The summons in FF history - specifically the ones with CGI all had pretty epic events and Bahamut usually felt badass still~ Like even when you could whip it out Bahamut felt pretty cool in FFX (although I think some people started to favor Anima for reasons).

Yeah I don't think this is an actual pet in this case (could be wrong).

I actually think this is just a visual effect with a twist on the old mechanic of Ruin 3 Spam lead up to Deathflare.

So I don't think it will actually downgrade Bahamut, as an Epic creature in this case.

This would be something interesting, I just don't think a lot of that extra stuff will get used much due to Boss Mob invulnerability cycles and AoE mob pack type battles.

[Jerbob]

SMNs were often relegated to glorified healers.

Going to make my usual reminder that SMN in XI hasn't been this way for nearly a decade and is still going strong. SMN's myriad difficulties back then were due to bad scaling systems and an almost complete back of gear with Pet bonus stats, perpetuated by developers who seemed to not know how to make a pet job work; the fact that it works well now demonstrates that the problem was not with the pet-focused theme of the job.

With regards to Bahamut, I think this embodies the problem I have with XIV's SMN. SE have repeatedly said in the past that a pet-focused SMN wouldn't work because of the size of the summons, among other things, and this goes some way to proving that was at least in part a lie. It's not around for long, but it's there. This Bahamut just illustrates that they can do anything they want to. They choose to make SMN the way it is.

Watching the video again, I can't help but notice that the green skeleton-bird still does almost nothing. The most exciting thing it does is die. I also can't help but notice that 90% of what's happening is the character throwing direct spells at a target. 20 seconds of a (admittedly really good looking!) Bahamut summon, most of which is filled with hurling spells out of a book, doesn't make SMN any more appealing for me; instead, I'm frustrated for what it could have been all the more.

I know that a lot of people are super excited about this, and I'm happy for you all! I was just hoping for something a bit more fundamental to change. I knew it was a futile wish, but they often are.

[Remus]

SMNs get Bahamut... SMNs still complain. If I was Yoshi-p I would say forget this playerbase lol

[Shougun]

Going to make my usual reminder that SMN in XI hasn't been this way for nearly a decade and is still going strong. SMN's myriad difficulties back then were due to bad scaling systems and an almost complete back of gear with Pet bonus stats, perpetuated by developers who seemed to not know how to make a pet job work; the fact that it works well now demonstrates that the problem was not with the pet-focused theme of the job.

With regards to Bahamut, I think this embodies the problem I have with XIV's SMN. SE have repeatedly said in the past that a pet-focused SMN wouldn't work because of the size of the summons, among other things, and this goes some way to proving that was at least in part a lie. It's not around for long, but it's there. This Bahamut just illustrates that they can do anything they want to. They choose to make SMN the way it is.

Watching the video again, I can't help but notice that the green skeleton-bird still does almost nothing. The most exciting thing it does is die. I also can't help but notice that 90% of what's happening is the character throwing direct spells at a target. 20 seconds of a (admittedly really good looking!) Bahamut summon, most of which is filled with hurling spells out of a book, doesn't make SMN any more appealing for me; instead, I'm frustrated for what it could have been all the more.

I know that a lot of people are super excited about this, and I'm happy for you all! I was just hoping for something a bit more fundamental to change. I knew it was a futile wish, but they often are.

I never bought the size argument because we have a lot of other MMORPGs that haven't exploded that have larger pets, FFXIV especially coming from such a flashy exuberant history is quite small. Although I agree that we should be concerned about "full size summons" besides the lore reason they're really big, but there really is nothing wrong with 1x 2x your character size, rather than the .5x we have.

On question about your issue with summoner, would you be happier if your skills were more primal based? Like if you had Ifrit Egi out and you cast bio its actually burn? Or even more that the burn is pulled from your Ifrit Egi and applied to your target, like some people are theorizing how the Bahamut mechanic works (your spells go through him). Or is it that you want to watch the pet itself do the damage, purely? I'm just asking if its the "image" or the mechanic. Because I've read a lot of people who just want to see more primal related activities, and don't like spending most of their rotation not doing primal stuff, but to change that part doesn't actually require a fundamental change to the mechanics.

Mostly I ask because I think people would be happier as a whole if we could make changes that don't go away from the core we have, changing a class underneath someone is something you probably only want to do if you're sure the end result is going to be massively better lol. (Like "100% sure").

Definitely I'm one of the people who liked what I saw in the trailer, although I still (as have always wanted) to see the Egi look better either through mechanic or just some native tier up (and feel that the DoT and like spells have opportunity to pull elemental ideas without changing summoner mechanics at all, like Bane = plume, Fester = Nail, etc).

Yeah I don't think this is an actual pet in this case (could be wrong).

I actually think this is just a visual effect with a twist on the old mechanic of Ruin 3 Spam lead up to Deathflare.

So I don't think it will actually downgrade Bahamut, as an Epic creature in this case.

This would be something interesting, I just don't think a lot of that extra stuff will get used much due to Boss Mob invulnerability cycles and AoE mob pack type battles.

I don't think Bahamut is controllable either, but he probably will follow you around and behave like a super turret - or maybe as you said he just does stuff when you do like your spells go "through" him. Either or haha.

All of that I'm cool with, and is actually a lot easier to balance (like even WoW has a high level of turret like quality to the pet spec, they do stuff but they're like DoTs turned into nice looking animated creatures, minus your main pet who has some abilities still). You're right about timer management with the invulnerability stuff, WoW Warlock also has this issue - this is why they have insane sustained damage on stationary targets but have issues with getting it out on high phase / mobility things (and where knowing the fight phases helps).

Excited to whip him out.. Going to go into some level 1 area and be like BAHAMUT, HELP ME... KILL ALL THE RABBITS! It'll be great :3

[Jerbob]

SMN get Bahamut... SMNs still complain. If I was Yoshi-p I would say forget this playerbase lol

I know it sounds really ungrateful... I suppose in a way it is. Still, if SE released a job called "Paladin" and it played like a Ranger, I think I'd be entitled to complain. This feels the same to me. "Ranger PLD" that gets Provoke at lv70 is still "Ranger PLD" and not the Paladin you'd expect.

On question about your issue with summoner, would you be happier if your skills were more primal based?

I'm interested in a job that allows me to interact with the pet I summon, so it's not just sitting there auto-attacking most of the time. Altering the aesthetics of Bio etc wouldn't give me any more of a "summoner" vibe than what we already have right now. As you say, though, a lot of people seem to like this sort of idea, and I can appreciate why they find it appealing.

Obviously the sort of changes I'm looking for would be impractical to fold into SMN as it currently exists. I'm in favour of just renaming exist SMN as "Arcanist", and having a new SMN build from the ground up. It's never going to happen, but I can dream.

I guess I'm just looking for something too specific, really. Or maybe it's an outdated class archetype? I'm not really sure.

[Mature]

Tbh I Main SMN and in proper happy about it because it feels a bit more like a SMN. and it's not only me you should of seen the twitch chat when bahamut was shown lol

[SendohJin]

If they want spell animations that look like avatars I don't see why they can't have that. But they get the two mixed up and want everything.

no, they don't. those are different groups of people.