Yoshi-P: "Paladin will receive alot of love"

[TheCount]

I think the changes are very welcome. Yes War can do 5 Fell Cleaves (speculation about maybe even 6) but the dmg output is now lowered.
The block of both magical + physical was really needed and that ability to cover team members from dmg is interesting.
PLD may now be used more for groups once more

Oh and Parry gone, about damn time

Damage output being lowered is not true, at least not specifically for Warrior. The potency for that Fel cleave is still 500, the damage you saw was because of a general tank damage nerf/buffs not being up properly

[javid]

In your scenario you're assuming party is the on moving. The range of the aura is in question; if it's huge pld can just turn around. If it's not, most mob-present-raid-aoes, the boss is in animation lock so again pld can move and party maintain postionals. As well as you already mentioned proper use of the melee positional negation skills.

Also storm path is situational even in high ilv raid parties. Example in 11 with proper party mitigation on GA100 YOU COULD Stand max melee range directly opposed to the party and keep dpsing and path would definitely be one of the buffs needed (pre echo). And that would actually net you 2-3 gcds to that of swinging an eye then running away then coming bk.

[javid]

The damage you gain from Berserk outweighs the damage lost from not attacking (and even under Pacification you can still use oGCDs and auto attack).

You're nitpicking what I said. Of course the buff outweighs the pacification. The point was to demonstrate a similar trade off that we're accustomed to.........

The point wasn't arms=zerk.

[Yorumi]

I don't think it'll be as powerful as you're imagining. Maybe it'll be useful during progression to prevent a wipe in case something goes wrong, but normally losing 2 gcds is quite a big blow to your dps, not to mention the lost positionals of the melee dps.

I think it's going to worth it for the 100% block more than anything. Remember we'll be able to block magic now too. While MT that's a significantly powerful cooldown to be able to block anything, specially rapid fire attacks. Even when not MT though, you can use it to shield the MT as well as still protect yourself. Think about things like shared cleaves that two tanks take. If sufficiently powerful MT pops a cooldown and then pld pops cooldown and hits this cover ability on the MT. That's a lot of damage reduction right there. I'm coming around on this one. I don't think it's worth protecting the raid with it outside niche situations but I can see a lot more use of it while MT or OT.

[SpookyGhost]

You're nitpicking what I said. Of course the buff outweighs the pacification. The point was to demonstrate a similar trade off that we're accustomed to.........

That assumes that the 15% damage reduction would also gain you enough trade off for the 2 GCDs missed. But we're assuming a lot of things so w/e.

[CookieMog]

People seems to forget two things :
1) SE Kept their words, Pally is hands down the go to Main Tank, block working on Magical and physical damage makes it so they're now a tank that has access to ALL of his defensive cooldowns in ANY situations. Awareness blocks crits, Bulwark gives block chances that now works on both type of damage, Sheltron is now literally spelltron blocks any incoming damage, making it a flat 24% damage reduction on a 30s cd for one big hit, and the other CD's are damage wide, since they're %dmg
That means SE actually made Paladin an actual tank you'll have to play pally if you actually want to TANK, not to care about your fflogs.

2) We can't say what kind of content they designed for us in raids or even SB dungeons, the removal of accuracy was one of their goal to suppress their own limit about being " creative " on bosses encounters. Meaning that we might get fights that are now effectively more of an " Endurance type " design.

[aleph_null]

Also storm path is situational even in high ilv raid parties. Example in 11 with proper party mitigation on GA100 YOU COULD Stand max melee range directly opposed to the party and keep dpsing and path would definitely be one of the buffs needed (pre echo). And that would actually net you 2-3 gcds to that of swinging an eye then running away then coming bk.

Nah even before echo you don't need path for GA100 since in a speedkill you'd skip the second EDD, thus shortening the pyretic phase a lot. The dps' bfb won't be up during GA100, the actual burst phase will be after the laser x sword (the one with photons, lasers on the floor and whirlwind).

1) SE Kept their words, Pally is hands down the go to Main Tank, block working on Magical and physical damage makes it so they're now a tank that has access to ALL of his defensive cooldowns in ANY situations. Awareness blocks crits, Bulwark gives block chances that now works on both type of damage, Sheltron is now literally spelltron blocks any incoming damage, making it a flat 24% damage reduction on a 30s cd for one big hit, and the other CD's are damage wide, since they're %dmg
That means SE actually made Paladin an actual tank you'll have to play pally if you actually want to TANK, not to care about your fflogs.

I don't like having "MT" and "OT" classification with only 3 tank jobs available, since that'll guarantee one of them a spot in a reasonable raid group composition (currently warrior is the go to OT and pld/drk are the go to MTs). Ideally all tank jobs should be able to perform well both in MT and OT roles. If you're optimizing your run you'll do multiple tank swaps to utilize both tanks' mitigation tools anyway, since having one tank dpsing while having one playing defensively won't yield the maximum group dps.

Optimizing a run is not always maximizing your personal dps. At least if your goal is to shorten the encounter duration you'll be aiming to maximize your group dps. For example right now tanks don't go into tank stance because all of them are dps whore who want to maximize their personal dps. It's just that with proper cooldown and healing coordination the dps loss from going into tank stance doesn't outweigh the extra healer dps afforded by that extra tankiness. If playing defensively would allow the healers to do more dps surpassing the dps loss on the tanks, they'll do that.

[Remedi]

I'm the only one concerned about beast gauge beign halved when stance dancing?

[aleph_null]

I'm the only one concerned about beast gauge beign halved when stance dancing?

Probably not, but this thread is (should be) about pld. XD

[javid]

That assumes that the 15% damage reduction would also gain you enough trade off for the 2 GCDs missed. But we're assuming a lot of things so w/e.

Yea we're all assuming stuff. But we're all trying or supposed to be trying to assume within reason. It's not far fetch to image a raid scenario that could benefit from a lost of 1-2 gcds for 100%block and 15% raid dmg reduction