PSA - Cleric Stance and vote kicking

[Ama_Hamada]

Yeah, but his point was only Cleric Stance and maybe a tank having latency with defensive CDs at like Punishing Heat (tank buster) in A12S can cause deaths on a massive scale and or full wipes.So he was actually talking about the 'risk factor of Cleric latency' which doesn't matter really for most other abilities. Like...yeah BRD could get latency and miss a Bloodletter and it reduces some DPS but it won't cause deaths or a wipe like a healer getting lag and getting stuck in Cleric Stance at a time they didn't want to be.

Most healers who DPS with Cleric have had it happen one time or another either by lag or bungling your button presses and nothing usually causes an unexpected wipe faster in Savage like a healer stuck in Cleric Stance at a wrong moment.

Ein and I usually got annoyed at Cleric Stance once per raid night at least if not more D: due to the risky nature of it due to lag.

Normally I don't mind Cleric but my ping also went up quite a bit with server move which was only going to make Cleric lag worse for me so idk I think I am okay with the changes to Cleric and healer DPS being MND based.

Yeah, there is more skill involved with the current healer DPS method, but having already mastered it I am personally okay with not having to deal with stance dancing on healer anymore and dealing with the latency risk which was completely out of your hands if it happened and caused unnecessary wipes.

(btw are you Ama? Hi o/ )

ofc I am sure ya saw me say I am an alt before.

I get that, I rather cut the root of the problem, not a branch. It is nice they are changing that to stop wipes from happening, but from a personal perspective, depending on a person, missing something like that due to latency is just as frustrating. Why not fix the coding in general and stop the problem across the board?

[Welsper59]

Operative words being: Any other MMO. Healing in FFXIV simply does not necessitate that type of acute awareness. In dungeons, if you aren't actively DPSing, you are next to useless. People have posted videos where they literally did nothing 80% of the full run. There just isn't enough outgoing damage in this game and until that changes, healers are essentially hybrids.

This is the unfortunate reality of the game, IMO. Some people want to play their roles, irrelevant of how well they might do while dipping into that hybrid potential. Can't really blame them, since roles generally represent a matter of importance and frequency across any game. Pick a DPS to DPS most/all of the time, pick a healer to heal most/all of the time, tank to tank, etc.

I'd imagine that's part of the reason why the fights are not designed with healer DPS in mind (according to Yoshi-P). Obviously some players would take offense to that statement, but they always fail to understand the situation and intent behind it. If you're doing content before the devs intend you to, of course you're going to need extra help in something (pretty much always DPS). If you're doing it when they intend for people to do it by design, it becomes less of a necessity.

I really question if they could change the DPS focused combat at this point. It seems the majority are okay with DPS focused everything though, so I don't think it's a big deal to leave it as is... until it inevitably becomes boring again. I wouldn't be very surprised if it eventually becomes a better idea to just remove the healer role as a dedicated one, and treat it like our "support" style of jobs lol. I get a lot of people that stress the importance of the DPS part of healers would be upset by the title change, but if it's currently not even common to heal much, I doubt there'd be a huge impact on how they play anyway. Or maybe not go that far and take advantage of a smart healing system, since we kind of already have that with the fairies anyway, but where damage = heals. Have a couple heal spells available to use when needed.

[Miste]

I get that, I rather cut the root of the problem, not a branch. It is nice they are changing that to stop wipes from happening, but from a personal perspective, depending on a person, missing something like that due to latency is just as frustrating. Why not fix the coding in general and stop the problem across the board?

Yeah it'd be good if they could fix latency of course. I was just clarifying what BF said though the reasons why Cleric was kind of more of a bigger issue due to it causing death/wipes. I understand other's issues with losing DPS because of it are also frustrating it just wasn't as punishing as a full group wipe.

Healers just have more issues with that....like one time I was doing A12S with static and we were doing the add phase with the holy spam and I usually use lightspeed there...I used it, it went on cooldown, but my character didn't get the lightspeed buff lol so uh...I kinda interrupted my spells first two times since I usually move and cast with lightspeed on...then realized what was happening, but it was too late and 3/4 DPS died so we had to wipe and restart ><

All because of ill-timed latency D: and Cleric liked to mess up way more often than that unfortunately since the Lightspeed one only happened to me once.

(I might have missed the post where you said it was an alt...or maybe my memory is bad, but I just assumed since very similar name ^^; )

[Ama_Hamada]

Yeah it'd be good if they could fix latency of course. I was just clarifying what BF said though the reasons why Cleric was kind of more of a bigger issue due to it causing death/wipes. I understand other's issues with losing DPS because of it are also frustrating it just wasn't as punishing as a full group wipe.Healers just have more issues with that....like one time I was doing A12S with static and we were doing the add phase with the holy spam and I usually use lightspeed there...I used it, it went on cooldown, but my character didn't get the lightspeed buff lol so uh...I kinda interrupted my spells first two times since I usually move and cast with lightspeed on...then realized what was happening, but it was too late and 3/4 DPS died so we had to wipe and restart ><

All because of ill-timed latency D: and Cleric liked to mess up way more often than that unfortunately since the Lightspeed one only happened to me once.

(I might have missed the post where you said it was an alt...or maybe my memory is bad, but I just assumed since very similar name ^^; )

Yep I make it obvious, no reason for people start crazy rumors for no reason and act like I try hide the fact. I had a weird accordance with swiftcast the other day, ill repeat encase you didn't see (post caps ugh)
(keep in mind i mouse clicked to different buttons so it was not a macro or anything)
Hit swiftcast
hit summon 1
hardcast summon 1
move to interrupt it
swiftcast used on summon 1 on next casting attempt

I posted a pic of the log in a few places like the call center move sticky.
(well not there prob in that other thread, ill edit in a sec)
"New-Datacenter-Sacramento-CA/"
Is no longer there, wonder why.. prob was in there and few others i posted that log

[Averax]

I dont care about that changes. lol

I still WONT dps when I play as HEALER in dungeons groups!

Why people think healer classes have to do 2 jobs and tank and dps classes only do 1 job..?

Once DPS's or Tanks has the same healspells healer has, only then I will DPS as healer in groups too! o_o

Actually, tanks have to fulfill two roles in larger group content too. Main tank, generates aggro. Off tank, DPS.

And BRD and MCH have secondary roles as well, providing support. Summoners are like the designated rez to save the healers MP.

If you want to be lazy and stand there waiting for damage, and make your runs take longer, by all means do it. But don't expect people to just put up with it because you're too stubborn to press an extra couple buttons in your downtime. If kicks come your way, you have nobody to blame but yourself.

[szalkerous]

As a raid healer in many MMOs, I'll say things like "kick the healer if they don't DPS" is absolutely absurd. Healers are there to HEAL first, that's their JOB. If they have downtime to weave in some DPS that's up to them. Unless you're in progression raid content, that's a real low move to kick a healer for simply focusing on their job. My two cents.

[Keridwyn]

As a raid healer in many MMOs, I'll say things like "kick the healer if they don't DPS" is absolutely absurd. Healers are there to HEAL first, that's their JOB. If they have downtime to weave in some DPS that's up to them.

Even for my laggy connection, fights have downtime. I am far from a savage content raider and even I agree to tossing out dps because otherwise I'd be twiddling my thumbs. With the upcoming chages theres far less stress to throwing rocks at mobs.

[szalkerous]

Even for my laggy connection, fights have downtime. I am far from a savage content raider and even I agree to tossing out dps because otherwise I'd be twiddling my thumbs. With the upcoming chages theres far less stress to throwing rocks at mobs.

And I also know the role of healer well enough to know how and when to stance flip and DPS. But there's a large difference between letting the healer manage themselves and kicking them out of a group because they didn't meet your ridiculous expectations. Personally I would gladly get kicked and find another group instead of having some elitist ass tell me all about how a healer is supposed to be DPSing world content. Healers can re-queue pretty fast. You might be waiting a while, especially since everyone will be wanting to play on their shiny new red mages and samurais.

EDIT: I feel you on the lag. It's been brutal for me since the NA datacenter moved. Trying to heal with this lag is absurd, I have to predict damage and heal before I even see anyone takes a hit.

[Keridwyn]

And I also know the role of healer well enough to know how and when to stance flip and DPS. But there's a large difference between letting the healer manage themselves and kicking them out of a group because they didn't meet your ridiculous expectations. Personally I would gladly get kicked and find another group instead of having some elitist ass tell me all about how a healer is supposed to be DPSing world content.

Agreed. To be clear I'm talking about healers who arent even trying. If they're new to the class, duty, or are suffering with the red lag circle of doom I'm not going to breath fire on them. If you're using emotes or just alt-tabbing some netflix, I'd politely request you entertain yourself by chucking rocks at mobs instead.

EDIT: I feel you on the lag. It's been brutal for me since the NA datacenter moved. Trying to heal with this lag is absurd, I have to predict damage and heal before I even see anyone takes a hit.

Mines hardware related but the move nailed a lot of my friends. Hopefully routing improves and cuts down on it!

[MomomiMomi]

As a raid healer in many MMOs, I'll say things like "kick the healer if they don't DPS" is absolutely absurd. Healers are there to HEAL first, that's their JOB. If they have downtime to weave in some DPS that's up to them. Unless you're in progression raid content, that's a real low move to kick a healer for simply focusing on their job. My two cents.

Is it really so absurd to expect a party member to not standing there doing nothing?

Also, "many MMOs" doesn't apply to this game. In this game, barely any healing is necessary, especially in dungeons or 24-player raids.