Parry replaced by tenacity (Gear only)

[SpookyGhost]

Not sure what the "parry chance" means. So is it tied to skills now that provide parry, Dark Dance, Raw Intuition, Bulwark? or something else? So glad for this change though. I wonder how it stacks up with DET, assuming it stays unchanged in 4.0 but its possible it might not. Sounds like a trade off to me. I just hope they don't mess up TENC and make the gains tier based like what they did with parry.

Parry works as it does now, there just isn't a stat for it anymore.

Also Bulwark doesn't provide parry.

[Ultimatecalibur]

Not sure what the "parry chance" means. So is it tied to skills now that provide parry, Dark Dance, Raw Intuition, Bulwark? or something else? So glad for this change though. I wonder how it stacks up with DET, assuming it stays unchanged in 4.0 but its possible it might not. Sounds like a trade off to me. I just hope they don't mess up TENC and make the gains tier based like what they did with parry.

Parry wasn't tier based it just had such a small growth rate per point that it was very difficult to see the difference when testing.

[Fernosaur]

Doubt that Tenacity will have more dps weight than Crit, Skill Speed or Determination. My main point was that tank damage will be dropping even if the secondary stat based difference is shrinking.

It's not about it having more dps weight, it's the fact that what we have as Parry right now, which is a substat that gives us zero DPS returns, will in turn become a stat that will give us DPS increases. We're literally gaining a DPS increse where there was none before, and in quite a significant burst too. Look at how much Parry you have right now, which can't be lower than 300 even if you have no Parry at all in your gear: this will stop being dead weight and will become a source of DPS come Stormblood.

I think the reversal to Str-based damage was done to compensate for this additional source of DPS modifiers.

[Jonnycbad]

Still a serious nerf in tank damage. An i270 tank is going to lose about 10% of their dps in Vit accessories. On the other hand, no ability to swap to strength accessories for a 25% increase in dps.

Nothing stopping you from melding STR onto VIT accessories

[javid]

...

I think the reversal to Str-based damage was done to compensate for this additional source of DPS modifiers.

it's not necessarily an OVERALL dps increase; since already most CORE tank wear BiS that don't have much (if any) parry stats on them. However it can still turn out to be an overall DPS increase; we'll have to see the numbers. Currently tank Attack Power is weighted at .45*STR + .45*VIT so if we go bk to a weight of 1*STR there will be a net lost in AP even with STR melds; however Tenacity may cover that gap AND PROVIDE additional DEFENSE!!

[Ultimatecalibur]

It's not about it having more dps weight, it's the fact that what we have as Parry right now, which is a substat that gives us zero DPS returns, will in turn become a stat that will give us DPS increases. We're literally gaining a DPS increse where there was none before, and in quite a significant burst too. Look at how much Parry you have right now, which can't be lower than 300 even if you have no Parry at all in your gear: this will stop being dead weight and will become a source of DPS come Stormblood.

I think the reversal to Str-based damage was done to compensate for this additional source of DPS modifiers.

Considering that BiS is maxing out Crit and Det right now unless Tenacity is better than Det or Crit for weight only minimum dps will increase not max.

The reverting back to Str only and then locking tanks to only Vit accessories will only decrease the max dps tanks can output.

The two changes are not linked. Parry is being changed to Tenacity to make the stat worthwhile while going back to Strength only for damage and locking tanks to Vit accessories is to make tank stances necessary in order to hold enmity.

Nothing stopping you from melding STR onto VIT accessories

Was already factoring that in.

Was going from current .45 Str+ .45 Vit weights to 1 Str weights with the same i270 gear with Str melded into Vit.

[Fernosaur]

You're missing my point entirely...

Forget about BiS builds right now. Even with a BiS build that has absolutely no Parry on it, you natively have quite a bit of Parry.

That amount is gonna be converted into Tenacity, which will in turn affect DPS. By how much, we cannot know, only SB's release will tell.

You're effectively gaining a DPS source where there was none before, and it has absolutely nothing to do with the gear you are wearing, cause even without any gear, you'll have a base amount of Parry (0 DPS) that will transform into Tenacity (additional DPS).

I'm not saying the change was made ONLY for this reason, but it's folly to think these changes aren't balanced around each other. My theory is that tank damage output is gonna be more of less the same, or at the very least it won't decrease nearly as much as people think it will.

[Ultimatecalibur]

You're missing my point entirely...

Forget about BiS builds right now. Even with a BiS build that has absolutely no Parry on it, you natively have quite a bit of Parry.

That amount is gonna be converted into Tenacity, which will in turn affect DPS. By how much, we cannot know, only SB's release will tell.

You're effectively gaining a DPS source where there was none before, and it has absolutely nothing to do with the gear you are wearing, cause even without any gear, you'll have a base amount of Parry (0 DPS) that will transform into Tenacity (additional DPS).

You are completely missing the point. The extra damage from Tencacity isn't going to be doing much. Sure we are getting 354 points of it at 60 but that isn't going to make up for the loss of main stat damage in comparison to what the DpS are getting from accessories (remember they will also have no dead stats) at 70. The current Tank dps vs SB Tank dps at 60 will roughly be the same come Stormblood but the gap between Tanks and DpS will grow.

[Shurrikhan]

Doubt that Tenacity will have more dps weight than Crit, Skill Speed or Determination.

If it did, there'd only be one viable secondary stat. I'm already forward to not having to obligatorily meld strength to my every accessory, if the rumors pan out that main stat maxes will be shared on accessories. I'd rather see the remaining three stats become better balanced (e.g. via TP reform and faint down-tuning of Crit), or all stats have a defensive side-effect, than a new, largely defensive stat, overtake all three offensive stats in that regard as well.

[javid]

You are completely missing the point. The extra damage from Tencacity isn't going to be doing much. Sure we are getting 354 points of it at 60 but that isn't going to make up for the loss of main stat damage in comparison to what the DpS are getting from accessories (remember they will also have no dead stats) at 70. The current Tank dps vs SB Tank dps at 60 will roughly be the same come Stormblood but the gap between Tanks and DpS will grow.

I already addressed both y'all points.. lol

We cant know how tenacity will affect our dps until SB. But go up post #15.