Dark Knights...

[Steady]

I already conceded the first. That one instance with a DRK was the only time it came up, and since haven't found anyone who bothers to want to do it that way. Our group didn't do it that way, and I suppose I assumed it'd be like every other run I had done in AS12. Most of it was without any warning, and when I did accommodate it, the drk seemed to have perpetual issues keeping hate, which in turn made it so I had to stick to non-butcher's combo. The entire encounter pretty much felt like we were all just trying to make the DRK happy, at the expense of the rest of the group, as he was unwilling to conform and his method kept causing chaos and aggro issues.

At any rate.. if that's the "speed kill pro" way to do it, then that's what it is.

In truth, the more irritating thing was the dungeon run, but seems that's shadowed by the as12 comment.

[aleph_null]

Most of it was without any warning, and when I did accommodate it, the drk seemed to have perpetual issues keeping hate, which in turn made it so I had to stick to non-butcher's combo.

That's because drk doesn't use their aggro combo in their dps rotation. In fact neither does pld (as my previous post mentioned), though their dps rotation has savage blade which has a bit of aggro multiplier. Their aggro combos come at the cost of dps loss, while war's aggro combo is just 20 potency above eye combo. That extra 20 potency you're gaining is forcing the other tank to lose up to 90 potency just to make sure you don't rip aggro. That's a selfish playstyle. If you're OT and you're ripping aggro from your MT by using butcher's block that's 100% your fault. If a dps is ripping aggro from the MT, it's their fault. I'd suggest taking that as a lesson to improve yourselves, though if the drk never explained why he wanted to do things in certain ways he's also at fault.

I can't really speak for the dungeon run, but generally I consider LD to require planning and coordination, so I wouldn't use it very often in dungeons with healers I don't know. If you could coordinate the usage of LD it could be a dps gain for everyone though, since that buys quite a bit of time for the healers to dps before having to heal the drk.

[Steady]

As previously stated. I concede that I was not familiar with that strategy, though most the folks in my group also were not as well. Which was probably what left us with a bad taste, since he insisted on doing things that way, when we were used to another... and then didn't adequately explain the way or reasons for the way that DRK wanted to run it.

[Lyth]

...

Your PLD has around 75% uptime on Shield Oath in A12S with echo. It's unlikely that you'd run into enmity issues like that, especially with no swaps.

This just illustrates how players come into pugs with different strategies and expectations. You could just as easily have had a DRK offer to sit in Grit and tank without swaps, or a PLD who insisted on multiple swaps to squeeze out more dps. In a pug, the best players are flexible and are able to quickly pick up variations in strategy. Sometimes, that means working around weaker teammates and making concessions to get your group through. Your issue is with the player and their attitude, not the job.

Of course, misuse of Butcher's Block is a massive nuisance to DRK, and even if they're willing to quietly work around it, it leaves a bad impression. Just be mindful of this, and treat it as a point of etiquette.

If you have a co-tank who is happy to sit in defensive stance, however, the choice is made for you. Enmity only becomes an issue if both tanks are trying to optimise.

As for Living Dead usage in dungeons, I really can't tell you without more information. There's nothing that really requires its use, so it's more of a last ditch measure. If you're at 1 hp, however, it was warranted, and the dps loss to the healer is probably less important than preventing a wipe. Whether the events leading up to that were necessary is another story.

I'd love for DRK to be able to resolve Living Dead without outside intervention, either through a rework of the skill, or if one of our new abilities lets us do this. But for now, we'll have to wait until the expansion to see if there's a solution.

[aleph_null]

Not using butcher's block too often is not a strategy, it should be basic knowledge and etiquette for everyone playing warrior (though sadly it isn't as commonly known as it should have been). That 20 potency we gain is NOT worth the pld/drk losing up to 90 potency. If you're OT keep an eye on your own aggro.

[Jim_Berry]

*SNIP*
We get to the last boss, and he Living deads during the 4 add spawn, which is usually when I'm getting ready to spread dots... because... yay, 5 mobs!, and uses it for the tank buster... which makes me hafta immediately stop, and scramble, cause he used his LD a cooldown for the tank buster.

So I guess my question is... is that typical that DRK's are gonna ask you to sacrifice your DPS for theirs? I mean, I guess I play the job a bit more conservatively, and when I've ran with DRK's i know, I don't typically see this attitude, but overwhelming all others I seem to.

Can't win for losing!

Many groups dislike that I don't dps on my WHM or AST, so I commend you for tossing your dots.

I also get groups who get upset if I don't drop Grit on DRK (I'll drop Shield Oath on PLD, though).

No matter how I look at it, no one is happy.

[Jim_Berry]

Not using butcher's block too often is not a strategy, it should be basic knowledge and etiquette for everyone playing warrior (though sadly it isn't as commonly known as it should have been). That 20 potency we gain is NOT worth the pld/drk losing up to 90 potency. If you're OT keep an eye on your own aggro.

A little off topic:

As PLD, I do Royal Authority x2 before needing to reapply Goring Blade. I rarely have to touch Halone unless necessary. What is the way WAR do it with Eye and Path? Is one one then one, or Eye x2 and Path, or Eye and Path x2?

[aleph_null]

A little off topic:

As PLD, I do Royal Authority x2 before needing to reapply Goring Blade. I rarely have to touch Halone unless necessary. What is the way WAR do it with Eye and Path? Is one one then one, or Eye x2 and Path, or Eye and Path x2?

Path is situational, generally you keep repeating eye until you need/want some mitigation (especially useful for progression in savage contents, where you might actually want to apply path even before eye). If there's no need for path just keep repeating eye.

As pld you can use 2x royal 1x goring with no halone if the other tank (especially war) doesn't use butcher's block every other combo.

[whiteblade89]

Classic situation of people not knowing their class or consideration for the healer. My tank main is DRK and I love it. But I probably play a bit more conservatively than others. I do big pulls because blood price is awesome, but I rarely drop Grit if things are dying fast enough. Sometimes there's just no need for it. But if I DO drop Grit, it's either on bosses when I have solid aggro lead and maybe the last 2-3 mobs in a big pull. And I think a big problem is that some players don't realize that you take more damage without grit. I usually make sure I have Shadowskin or Shadow wall ready to go when I drop stance. Plus, not all players have the necessary situational awareness. If the party just took big hits, I always go back into Grit just help the healer out. These are all things players should be considering when they tank, but I think many of them don't realize how situationally aware you need to be.

[Giubba]

Hey guys sorry for keeping to hijack the thread but i didn't want to create a thread just for asking what is the status of the drk after the live letters announcements.