Suggestion as to how to get people to become healers.

[Arrius]

I'd say it also helps improving the enemies you face, both in their skillsets and AI.
You see that often in msq duty/fate fights where they just auto attack and rarely perform an action, only using either Fast Blade/Overpower/Heartstopper, which the latter two oddly have a 'cast bar' for them.

On Baelsar's Wall, quite a few trash mobs switch targets effectively, though I think there should be far more done to make those more engaging and dangerous for everyone.

[bardaboo]

Dpsing and shaving 5 minutes or so off the dungeon time i think is more important than reapplying stoneskin on a dps who got clipped in the middle of an aoe pull. He's not going to die, especially if the mobs die faster.
Making dungeons more difficult to heal, or trying to tweak mechanics to get more healing output will only create more problems. Unskilled healers will struggle even more. First pull of the wall for example. Extra dots going out dps and healer taking dmg, harder (not impossible) to dps, what happens? A bunch of complaining about tanks pulling the whole thing because it's harder to heal. So really all it does is serve as an excuse for healers who don't want to dps, and makes it harder on those who aren't as good.

[Arrius]

[...]Unskilled healers will struggle even more.[...]

I'd say they need to get good when they can't deal with high-level dungeons that -in case my suggestion got accepted- got boosted. If they get their asses handed over at this stage, they never properly made full use of their job in the first place.

And that, mind you, applies to every role. It just is more noticable on healers and tanks.

[hynaku]

Why would ones want to change to healer job. You have to put up with so many bad tanks and dps in partys. Also if they die from pulling to many monsters or pull to much agro from the tank and die they blame the healer and not themselves.

[Lawman]

healers shouldn't have to kill stuff to level, they should be healing to level! get rid of healer DPS all together, shouldn't healers take an oath to do no harm? just saying...my few pennies worth.

[Ama_Hamada]

healers shouldn't have to kill stuff to level, they should be healing to level! get rid of healer DPS all together, shouldn't healers take an oath to do no harm? just saying...my few pennies worth.

cnj quests would like a word with that, that suggests otherwise. (One of the early conj quests flat out tell you use cleric stance and attack basically)
Also all the healer quests require you DPS here and there.
The hall of novice healer trials?
And finally, all healers in FF have some kind of DPS tools.

I doono where people get healers only heal stuck in people head come from.

[Belhi]

Dpsing and shaving 5 minutes or so off the dungeon time i think is more important than reapplying stoneskin on a dps who got clipped in the middle of an aoe pull. He's not going to die, especially if the mobs die faster.
Making dungeons more difficult to heal, or trying to tweak mechanics to get more healing output will only create more problems. Unskilled healers will struggle even more. First pull of the wall for example. Extra dots going out dps and healer taking dmg, harder (not impossible) to dps, what happens? A bunch of complaining about tanks pulling the whole thing because it's harder to heal. So really all it does is serve as an excuse for healers who don't want to dps, and makes it harder on those who aren't as good.

Situation depends a lot on group makeup. Particularly with casters, large pulls with the healer focused on keeping the tank alive are quicker than small pulls where the healer can dps. Its up to the tank to see what his group is composed of and what CDs are available for each pull and pull accordingly. Healers major gameplay should be healing. That is the entire reason for the existence of the role. Its to offer an alternate gameplay. People like that style of gameplay. Many of those types of players find dpsing dreadfully boring. If dpsing was supposed to be the core part of healing they might as well just get rid of the healing role and give the Jobs interesting DPS rotations. However I am never a fan of cutting back on the variety of gameplay options. As it is the healing meta in FF14 is probably one of the most underwhelming metas as far as gameplay in just about any MMO I have played. Heals are way too powerful and as such there is massive amounts of healer downtime which is where this dpsing thing came from. From Yoshi P's responses it was never an intentional part of design. Cleric stance was for solo gameplay, not so healers would dps in dungeons.

I am sceptical your going to shave 5 minutes off a dungeon run with the healer dpsing unless the dps themselves are under performing. The healer isn't going to have 100% dps up time and their dps isn't on par with the dps classes or often the tank. As a rule my first and most important requirement for a healer is that they actually heal. Recovering from a wipe adds more time to a run than is really earned from the healer dpsing, particularly if it happens more than once. If the healer has heals properly under control then they should dps but first and foremost healing is their role. I can live with a healer not dpsing if the group is alive. I get really annoyed if a healer keeps letting people die because they are fixated on dpsing.

Plus with DF your always going to have to deal with the fact that you don't get to pick the group your given. Its kind of like cards. You get your hand and make the most of it or just fold and put up with the loss (leave penalty).

[Furiea]

why we talkiing about DPS dungeon faster now? lol
DPS dungeon faster = get 2 SMN. nothing to do with dps healer.

not really aware we have shortage on healers
i like playing healer. pretty chill job and fast quene time. i only play SMN for DPS in dungeon because my friend plays tank/healer (even known I am better tank and just as good healer... but they are gimp on other jobs lol)

[Lawman]

cnj quests would like a word with that, that suggests otherwise. ... I doono where people get healers only heal stuck in people head come from.

I completely understand what your saying but the topic of this thread is how to convince people to be healers. With how much Healers are expected to do and then get blamed when $#!T hits the fan makes being a healer unpopular for most. Im saying to make the job less complicated to achieve better popularity. Good Healers are expected to Keep Tanks alive, Keep everyone else alive through Damage Phases, These are a given but then, to Stance Dance, DPS, than back to healing. Perhaps we should give all DPS'ers a weak Heal ability so that they can throw in heals inbetween their DPS'ing? then everyone would be working at optimal efficiency.

[Ama_Hamada]

Situation depends a lot on group makeup. Particularly with casters, large pulls with the healer focused on keeping the tank alive are quicker than small pulls where the healer can dps. Its up to the tank to see what his group is composed of and what CDs are available for each pull and pull accordingly. Healers major gameplay should be healing. That is the entire reason for the existence ofthe role. Its to offer an alternate gameplay. People like that style of gameplay. Many of those types of players find dpsing dreadfully boring. If dpsing was supposed to be the core part of healing they might as well just get rid of the healing role and give the Jobs interesting DPS rotations. However I am never a fan of cutting back on the variety of gameplay options. As it is the healing meta in FF14 is probably one of the most underwhelming metas as far as gameplay in just about any MMO I have played. Heals are way too powerful and as such there is massive amounts of healer downtime which is where this dpsing thing came from. From Yoshi P's responses it was never an intentional part of design. Cleric stance was for solo gameplay, not so healers would dps in dungeons.

I am sceptical your going to shave 5 minutes off a dungeon run with the healer dpsing unless the dps themselves are under performing. The healer isn't going to have 100% dps up time and their dps isn't on par with the dps classes or often the tank. As a rule my first and most important requirement for a healer is that they actually heal. Recovering from a wipe adds more time to a run than is really earned from the healer dpsing, particularly if it happens more than once. If the healer has heals properly under control then they should dps but first and foremost healing is their role. I can live with a healer not dpsing if the group is alive. I get really annoyed if a healer keeps letting people die because they are fixated on dpsing.

Plus with DF your always going to have to deal with the fact that you don't get to pick the group your given. Its kind of like cards. You get your hand and make the most of it or just fold and put up with the loss (leave penalty).

5 mins is more average, if you are talking liberty farms your more doing 15/13 mins to 13mins/11 mins. If you mean expert, 20 to 15 is pretty common. If you are talking about subpar DPS, the healer DPS is replacing the DPS in that case. This is why my whm friend told the brd to ballad her last run, First pulls and first boss she OOM so she is like ballad me ( so she can make up for the sub par DPS the brd was pulling.) Even a good smn could not carry that DPS loss enough. You are looking at more at 8-10 mins if you mean true subpar DPS ( 1.2k DPS and under as a i270) On that note, delete wide volley plz, that is the number 1 cause of suppar BRD dps. Since we are tossing out arguments like "we need to remove cleric so cleric does not cause wipes" well removing wife volley is in the same boat because it is too hard to pass DPS checks with a wide volley spaming BRD.

I completely understand what your saying but the topic of this thread is how to convince people to be healers. With how much Healers are expected to do and then get blamed when $#!T hits the fan makes being a healer unpopular for most. Im saying to make the job less complicated to achieve better popularity. Good Healers are expected to Keep Tanks alive, Keep everyone else alive through Damage Phases, These are a given but then, to Stance Dance, DPS, than back to healing. Perhaps we should give all DPS'ers a weak Heal ability so that they can throw in heals inbetween their DPS'ing? then everyone would be working at optimal efficiency.

Healers are the easiest to blame because people dead = bad healer. Taking out clearic stance will not make more people magically play it nor change the blame game. We need more people play tanks anyway.