seeing all these total newbie tank is hilarious

[rockint]

It's inexcusable with how many resources there are. If anything, coming in without any effort to learn an instance expecting to be carried is a jerk move.

You want too much out of these groups. You want your 4/8/24 man groups to run like a preformed group, without putting in the effort of forming your own group.

Most of us can agree with not wanting a tank that refuses to actually try, but not every tank is going to treat this game like a part-time job.

You're just as wrong as they are for expecting every random player to play at your standards. There is no rule in this game that you have to queue alone. In a premade group, it's perfectly reasonable to expect certain standards from people, and you're 100% justified kicking them if they don't perform at those standards... But in a group with 3/7/23 other random people, YOU are the one that's wrong if you're expecting them to know everything about their class and the dungeon before even starting.

[Hierro]

You want too much out of these groups. You want your 4/8/24 man groups to run like a preformed group, without putting in the effort of forming your own group.

Gee, I guess it's too much to ask that people watch a short 3 minute youtube video before a dungeon. I never knew watching a video was a lot harder than going out of one's way to get people for a premade. Learn something new every day. I'm 100% justified to kick ANYONE, premade or not, if they're playing like an uneducated ice mage.

[RopeDrink]

Come now, we all know that only dedicated portions of game populations actively research their class/role, especially when it comes to the lower-level range of content. I can't imagine reaching level 15 for the first time and thinking "Hey, I better watch a video about Sastasha and/or make sure I know how to perform my 3-button combo". Most won't take that step until they're absolutely committed to the game - and that feeling usually doesn't kick in for most until they're nearing mid/max level. Don't get me wrong, I hardcore cringe at some of the shenanigans I see in all ranges of content, but given I primarily stick to Duty Finder (where groups will forever remain variable), you'd be injuring your own mental health by crusading against those who aren't at least half-aware of what their class/role's optimal formulas are (of which there are pleeeeenty).

[Hierro]

you'd be injuring your own mental health by crusading against those who aren't at least half-aware of what their class/role's optimal formulas are (of which there are pleeeeenty).

For the record, people only have access to 2 button combos in sastasha. I'm not refering to those guys, not by a long shot. I'm referring the the lvl 60 dragoon that doesn't activate botd or heavy thrust up, who keeps being the responsible player for multiple wipes. Are you telling me those guys should have a pass?

[Moomba33]

I'd wager most players don't research the games they play. They just hop in and go until they hit a wall at which point they'll look stuff up or play another game.

[Venjenz]

Gee, I guess it's too much to ask that people watch a short 3 minute youtube video before a dungeon.

I mentioned the 3 minute video thing to my FC after a 2nd wipe in Aery, iirc. I was on your side, btw. And three different people in my own FC defended NOT watching the videos because it's more fun for surprise, roleplaying, etc. I basically got shouted down on the point, and as newer member, I let it go and didn't argue, but apparently, there is sentiment out there against watching the various videos or learning up an encounter before you attempt it.

For me, I won't go into an instance before watching the video, unless I've done it enough hat I remember it well. FF14 has a ton of dungeons and the boss fights all have tons of mechanics to remember. To me, the RP value of training as a WAR is self-evident, but apparently others disagree. They feel it is RP to blindly rush into serious danger without any clue whatsoever.

[Tint]

To me, the RP value of training as a WAR is self-evident, but apparently others disagree. They feel it is RP to blindly rush into serious danger without any clue whatsoever.

i don't watch guides either, except the content is really old or maybe for savage fights. running the new dungeons and 24 man raids blind at patchday is one of the best things this game has to offer. this has nothing to do with RP for me, it's fun to figure out mechanics and see all the new stuff first hand. i remember Halatali HM 2nd boss where you have to get the blind debuff and Amdapor City HM first boss where you have to turn around while he casts this one skill, or otherwise the whole map is full of aoes. i figuered these mechanics out, all by myself. we wiped a few times beforehand and were discussing how this works and what we have to do. it was SO rewarding and fun to finally beat the boss.

[Venjenz]

i don't watch guides either, except the content is really old or maybe for savage fights. running the new dungeons and 24 man raids blind at patchday is one of the best things this game has to offer. this has nothing to do with RP for me, it's fun to figure out mechanics and see all the new stuff first hand. i remember Halatali HM 2nd boss where you have to get the blind debuff and Amdapor City HM first boss where you have to turn around while he casts this one skill, or otherwise the whole map is full of aoes. i figuered these mechanics out, all by myself. we wiped a few times beforehand and were discussing how this works and what we have to do. it was SO rewarding and fun to finally beat the boss.

An example of why people like to run stuff blind, where I prefer to be prepared. That's the rub of DF roulette...you find all kinds. 8)

[Delorean]

And this is why not a lot of people tank. They get criticized for trying/learning.....

People don't tank because they don't find the prospect of having less impact on a group to be exciting. DPS players want to control performance, Tank players want to control direction and Healer players want to control stability.

But I think one of the things that has given this game a good tank population is that it's one of the few modern games out there that are actually making Warrior class archetypes do their job. In any other game, knights and warriors etc. are hiding behind something else and are as fragile as a mage. And if you decide to be a tank instead of your DPS, you lose anything that makes you threatening. It's so stupid and it's one of the things this game managed to avoid completely with what seems to be not-so-common sense.

A lot of people are quick to point this out but how many people do you know play DPS and quit playing DPS just because someone told them their DPS sucked? They probably didn't care. They were probably like I'm a Death Knight or whatever WooooooOOOOOOOOOOOooooooEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEoooooooohhh *darkness and stuff*

[RopeDrink]

For the record, people only have access to 2 button combos in sastasha. I'm not refering to those guys, not by a long shot.

Of course not, it was an example of which most still applies, even to the 60 stuff. You should know by now that when it comes to Joe Soaps out there, very few are in that state where they want to become great at what they're doing - which typically involves research. I'm the type of person who wants to take things to the next level, but not so much to a point where it feels like work. People like me do their research to a certain point, enjoy putting things into 'practice' and don't shy away from asking for tips, but I personally don't cut myself over not being pristine savage-conquering material player of perfection.

Then there are others won't even research - possibly ask for second-hand tips or discuss things with FC/World/NN, but probably assume they know enough to do a passable job. Some log in with variable game-time, hoping to use it any way they can without any care for whether they're making a decent go of it. Others wouldn't know common sense if it punched them in the nostril. Point is, everyone is a variable and not all that many of them will meet expectations if they're set too high. You'll accomplish nothing but stress by putting yourself into the DF mincing machine and then biting back against everyone who doesn't meet them, even in 60 content where you would rightfully assume most have a half-competent understanding of what they're doing (shock horror, some don't even after all that time). The right way would be to add people you DO see playing to your standard and rejoining them - you avoid the types you're complaining about entirely and have a better grip of the progress flow. Kicking randoms out of a roulette dungeon doesn't really accomplish much at the end of the day - they can sign up to the next one and continue flailing around like nothing happened for the most part, and just open up the door for a potentially better, or maybe equal or even worse example filling the void - with a high chance of a toxic air hanging over the group as a result.