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  1. #2281
    Player
    Rongway's Avatar
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    Aug 2013
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    4,191
    Character
    Cyrillo Rongway
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Bahd_Monkey View Post
    I do the rotation a bit different:
    Enochian
    Fire 3
    Fire 2 (3x if I have full mana i.e. start of a battle, 2x after using transpose)
    Flare
    Transpose
    Blizzard 4
    Go back to the Fire 3
    Did some maths. Assume 6 mobs. Potencies as listed on abilities, plus Astral/Umbral and Enochian bonuses

    Potencies for individual casts
    Code:
    Enochian, with Blizzard IV
    Enochian
    Fire III        252        240 × 1.05[En]
    Fire II        1134        100 × 6 × 1.8[AF] × 1.05[En]
    Fire II        1134
    Fire II        1134
    Flare          2211        260 × (1 + 0.9 + 0.8 + 0.7 + 0.6 + 0.5) × 1.8[AF] × 1.05[En]
    Transpose
    Blizzard IV     294        280 × 1.05[En]
    Fire III        226        240 × 0.9[UI] × 1.05[En]
    Fire II        1134
    Fire II        1134
    Flare          ----        *** There is no way to Tp-B4-F3-F2-F2-Fa without a third MP tick
                                   because Blizzard IV is too expensive.  Since a third
                                   MP tick would have also given enough MP for another Fire II,
                                   let's start over.
    
    Enochian
    Fire III        252        240 × 1.05[En]
    Fire II        1134        100 × 6 × 1.8[AF] × 1.05[En]
    Fire II        1134
    Fire II        1134
    Flare          2211        260 × (1 + 0.9 + 0.8 + 0.7 + 0.6 + 0.5) × 1.8[AF] × 1.05[En]
    Transpose
    Blizzard IV     294        280 × 1.05[En]
    Fire III        226        240 × 0.9[UI] × 1.05[En]
    Fire II        1134
    Fire II        1134
    Fire II        1134
    Flare          2211
    Transpose
    Blizzard IV     294
    Fire III        226
    Fire II        1134
    Fire II        1134
    Fire II        1134
    Flare          2211
    
    
    Enochian, no Blizzard IV  (B)
    Fire III        240
    Enochian                   *** Use it here so it doesn't fall off before second Flare
    Fire II        1134        100 × 6 × 1.8[AF] × 1.05[En]
    Fire II        1134
    Fire II        1134
    Flare          2211        260 × (1 + 0.9 + 0.8 + 0.7 + 0.6 + 0.5) × 1.8[AF] × 1.05[En]
    Transpose
    Fire III        226        240 × 0.9[UI] × 1.05[En]
    Fire II        1134
    Fire II        1134
    Flare          2211
    Transpose
    ==== (Enochian wears off)
    Fire III        216
    Fire II        1080
    Fire II        1080
    Flare          2106
    Running totals -- original version without time considerations
    Code:
    With B4         Without
    En
    F3    252       F3    240
                    En
    F2   1386       F2   1374
    F2   2520       F2   2508
    F2   3654       F2   3642
    Fa   5865       Fa   5853       *** Up to this point, the difference is strictly
    Tp              Tp                  the 1.05 Enochian modifier on the initial Fire III.
    B4   6159       F3   6079       *** Lots of time left on Enochian, but it falls off during
    F3   6385       F2   7213           second fire phase if not refreshed here.
    F2   7519       F2   8347
    F2   8653       Fa  10558       Non-B4 reaches second Flare first.  Enochian falls off after.
                    Tp
    F2   9787       F3  10774
    Fa  11998       F2  11854       B4 guy jumps ahead briefly because of Flare...
    Tp
    B4  12292       F2  12934       ...but immediately falls behind again.
    F3  12518       Fa  15040
                    Tp
    F2  13652       F3  15256
    F2  14786       F2  16336
    F2  15920       F2  17416
    Fa  18131       Fa  19522
    Tp              Tp
    SC
    B4  18425       F3  19738
    F3  18651       F2  20818
    F2  19785       F2  21898
    F2  20919       Fa  24004
    F2  22053
    Fa  24264


    Running totals -- with timings
    Code:
    Assumptions:
    Blizzard IV cast time = Fire II cast time
    Fire III cast time    = Fire II cast time + 0.5s
    Flare cast time       = Fire II cast time + 1.0s
    oGCD cast time        = 0.5s
    All MP ticks line up perfectly (B4 guy gets 3 ticks per Transpose, non-B4 guy gets 2 ticks per Transpose).
    
    Time arrow indicates the side with advantage.
    
    With B4        Time     Without
    En             0.5s>
    F3    252               F3    240
                    =       En
    F2   1386               F2   1374
    F2   2520               F2   2508
    F2   3654               F2   3642
    Fa   5865               Fa   5853       *** Up to this point, the difference is strictly
    Tp                      Tp                  the 1.05 Enochian modifier on the initial Fire III.
    B4   6159     <0.5s     F3   6079       *** Lots of time left on Enochian, but it falls off during
    F3   6385       =       F2   7213           second fire phase if not refreshed here.
    F2   7519               F2   8347
    F2   8653     <1.0s     Fa  10558       Non-B4 reaches second Flare first.  Enochian falls off after.
                  <1.5s     Tp
    F2   9787     <2.0s     F3  10774
    Fa  11998     <1.0s     F2  11854       B4 guy jumps ahead briefly because of Flare...
    Tp            <0.5s
    B4  12292               F2  12934       ...but immediately falls behind again.
    F3  12518     <1.0s     Fa  15040
                  <1.5s     Tp
    F2  13652     <2.0s     F3  15256
    F2  14786               F2  16336
    F2  15920               F2  17416
    Fa  18131               Fa  19522
    Tp                      Tp
    SC            <1.5s
    B4  18425     <2.0s     F3  19738
    F3  18651     <1.5s     F2  20818
    F2  19785               F2  21898
    F2  20919     <2.5s     Fa  24004  <-------- This Flare happens about the same time as
    F2  22053  <-------------------------------- this Fire II.
                    =                       Resetting time alignment.
                  <0.5s     Tp
    Fa  24264      0.5s>    F3  24220
    Tp             0.5s>    En
    En             1.0s>
    F3  24490      1.5s>    F2  25354
    F2  25624               F2  26488
    F2  26758      0.5s>    Fa  28699
                    =       Tp
    F2  27892     <0.5s     F3  28925
    Fa  30103      0.5s>    F2  30059
    Tp             1.0s>
    B4  30397               F2  31193
    F3  30623      0.5s>    Fa  33404

    However, B4 guy will lose time if he only gets two ticks during Transpose-BlizzardIV-FireIII. NonB4 guy will lose time if he only gets one tick during Transpose-FireIII.
    (1)
    Last edited by Rongway; 05-03-2017 at 07:20 AM.
    Error 3102 Club, Order of the 52nd Hour

  2. #2282
    Player
    Bahd_Monkey's Avatar
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    Aug 2013
    Location
    Tower Of Latria
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    173
    Character
    Pale Esper
    World
    Midgardsormr
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 80
    Rongway, on your second chart, do both rotations take the same amount of time?
    (0)

  3. #2283
    Player
    Rongway's Avatar
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    Character
    Cyrillo Rongway
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Bahd_Monkey View Post
    Rongway, on your second chart, do both rotations take the same amount of time?
    Edited post to include a version with timing considerations, extended an extra couple rotations. Sorry if it's a bit muddy; I'd really like to do a proper timeline representing everything with bars but I don't have the time just this second.

    I've made some generous assumptions in favor of the B4 side to see if it can work out, but in practice my spellspeed is just too high to get enough MP ticks during the transpose. So I recommend just letting Enochian fall off. Besides, the mobs should be dead long before the bit with the arrows.
    (1)
    Error 3102 Club, Order of the 52nd Hour

  4. #2284
    Player
    Bahd_Monkey's Avatar
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    Tower Of Latria
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    173
    Character
    Pale Esper
    World
    Midgardsormr
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 80
    If you aren't going to use or refresh Enochian, it looks like Swift Casting the first Flare would be a dps increase. Since it has just a 60 second cool down, it will probably be back up before the next trash mob.
    (0)

  5. #2285
    Player
    Transient_Shadow's Avatar
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    Jul 2016
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    638
    Character
    Flutter Butter
    World
    Malboro
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 90
    did blm get nerfed or something? because I tried my hand at the striking dummy as a summoner and did a ton more damage just feeling my way around as apposed to my blm rotations.

    I'm really getting frustrated because it's starting to seem more and more that the blm got some kind of disadvantage to other classes in this game's HW content
    (0)

  6. #2286
    Player
    Ferth's Avatar
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    Uldah
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    1,329
    Character
    Ferth Fontaine
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 70
    I am more than happy for someone to prove me wrong, but my aoe rotation for blm is:
    1. fire 3
    2. swiftcast + flare
    3. transpose + fire3
    4. fire 2
    5. flare
    repeat from 3.

    I don't use any real cds for aoe.

    I toyed at one point with trying to keep enochian up but it seemed like it was a dps loss overall.
    (0)

  7. #2287
    Player
    GunksFoy's Avatar
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    May 2014
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    Gridania
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    244
    Character
    Gunks Foy
    World
    Adamantoise
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferth View Post
    I am more than happy for someone to prove me wrong, but my aoe rotation for blm is:
    1. fire 3
    2. swiftcast + flare
    3. transpose + fire3
    4. fire 2
    5. flare
    repeat from 3.

    I don't use any real cds for aoe.

    I toyed at one point with trying to keep enochian up but it seemed like it was a dps loss overall.
    Almost positive that the correct aoe rotation is fire 3 -> fire 2 x4 -> flare (swiftcast if you want, its optimal) -> transpose -> fire 3 -> fire 2 x2 -> flare -> repeat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Transient_Shadow View Post
    did blm get nerfed or something?
    I push 2750-2800 on average without using pots or food, so I would say no, they didn't get nerfed, but I suppose that depends how much you're doing on smn vs blm. Might be you, no offense.
    (1)

  8. #2288
    Player
    Ferth's Avatar
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    Jul 2011
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    Uldah
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    Character
    Ferth Fontaine
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by GunksFoy View Post
    Almost positive that the correct aoe rotation is fire 3 -> fire 2 x4 -> flare (swiftcast if you want, its optimal) -> transpose -> fire 3 -> fire 2 x2 -> flare -> repeat.
    I'd like to see some math on that if possible. As is, I almost never cast more than 3 flares before everything is dead, unless the other dps is not doing any aoe damage.

    I will concede that I am missing a fair amount of spell speed which could leave me with too much time on transpose after fire 2, in which a second fire 2 would potentially make sense.
    (0)
    Last edited by Ferth; 05-04-2017 at 03:53 PM.

  9. #2289
    Player
    GunksFoy's Avatar
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    May 2014
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    Gridania
    Posts
    244
    Character
    Gunks Foy
    World
    Adamantoise
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferth View Post
    I'd like to see some math on that if possible. As is, I almost never cast more than 3 flares before everything is dead, unless the other dps is not doing any aoe damage.
    I believe someone added it up at the top of this very page, but I don't have any math for you right now. This does, however, seem to be the consensus for the best aoe rotation. I work far too much to actually test the math.
    (0)

  10. #2290
    Player
    Ferth's Avatar
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    Uldah
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    Character
    Ferth Fontaine
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by GunksFoy View Post
    I believe someone added it up at the top of this very page, but I don't have any math for you right now. This does, however, seem to be the consensus for the best aoe rotation. I work far too much to actually test the math.
    It seems that the tables on the top of this page are about the potential dps gain with enochian and adding blizz 4 to the rotation. I'm doing the math myself atm, but if someone already had it for how my rotation compares to yours I'd be glad to see it.
    (0)

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