Coils of Bahamut... and its inconsistent challenge level.

[Vidu]

So because it's old I just want those who want to enjoy the content without any hurdles and to get past it.

Ask yourself how much enjoyment would come from fighting Bahamut and it turns out that there was a boss in your very first dungeon that was more challenging... at this very moment, there is a thread on the frontpage, made by a person whos complaining about dungeons in the mainstory because it takes them to long in the queue (as DPS, queueing for a specific lowlevel dungeon... yeah, that can take a while), right now dungeons are blocking this persons enjoyment of the game - shall we remove them?

In the end we both want the same thing: for new people to enjoy this content.
For me a lot of enjoyment comes from overcoming struggles and the feeling that you've truely achieved something. Coils story is epic and the fights add to that epicness and reflect it. They are part of the story. I want every person to have the chance to see and experience this content as epic fights that make them go "Oh, wow, that was pretty cool!"
You are, again, patronising in the worst possible way, assuming new people can and will only enjoy content when its not a challenge anymore - or that new people are unable to beat something enterily. You're the parent whos cutting their 30 year old sons meat and feed him because he always had trouble holding a knife correctly - and you're totally ignoring that today your little baby knows how to hold a knife and that they're actually not very fond of meat, but thats not bothering you because you know whats best for them!

YOU decided for every new player that coil is to much of a hazzle now and needs to be nerfed because thats the only way people will ever be able to enjoy this content, ripping them of any chance to feel that they've accomplished something. And I'm not talking about those people who need to boost their ego by playing videogames - I'm talking about that feeling of trying an optional, super-boss in a single player game for the third time and finally, finally winning!
You're talking about something we would call "popcorn-cinema/movie" in german: something that is present in the game with quests like Hilli and Brilli or the postmoggles or those doma kids... I could go on. There is content that can be enjoyed without facing challenges - there is content for that sort of player.
I'm talking about enjoyment that comes from finally overcoming an obstacle - that desire is equally valid and should be represented in the game for people who want that. And it is - in the form of raids. The feeling of beating Bahamut for the first time after you actually challenged him is still relevant today. Your experience in this content is still relevant today and to you. It will always be relevant to those who consider it important.

You're advocating for a group of people you assume exist - people who are past level 50, but totally unable to handle mechanics, unwilling to improve and socialise, just wanting to be fed braindead entertainment. You are defintly not speaking for all those new people out there - and you're screwing everyone over who considers enjoyment "beating a challenge". Please just stop pretending that you care about "the little guy" or the "poor newbie" when you take away any chance for them to grow, to challenge themself outside of a fixed static and even take away their damn choice.

Your suggestion makes it impossible for new people to enjoy this content.
Coil has a great story, yes - but part of that story is that you're actually struggeling to continue your journey. The fights are part of the narrative - let the new person decide for themself if they want to see and do that or not.
The reason I'm so much against further coil-nerfs is because I want new people to enjoy this content - and enjoyment doesnt mean "watch a cutscene, beat a dummy" and I believe there will be enoug people coming to this game who feel the same about that. And if they dont: there is still content for them to do. Leave this one for those who want that.

[Istaru]

Your suggestion makes it impossible for new people to enjoy this content.

Why don't we just turn the game into an interactive novel instead.

Please?

[Vidu]

Why don't we just turn the game into an interactive novel instead.

Please?

Actually, I wouldnt mind an interactive novel FF-game! I played Life is Strange recently (you should too!) and that sort of game with an FF-setting? Bought!

Thinking about it... right now I want that sort of game with a new fresh story and the option to unlock special, hidden chapters from previous games - inlcuding the plots of FFI to FFVI, the FFXIV 1.0 storyline, Coil-story, the background stories of FFX astras... oh god, I can think of so much I'd put into that game right now... HIRE ME SE!

[bswpayton]

Ask yourself how much enjoyment would come from fighting Bahamut and it turns out that there was a boss in your very first dungeon that was more challenging... at this very moment, there is a thread on the frontpage, made by a person whos complaining about dungeons in the mainstory because it takes them to long in the queue (as DPS, queueing for a specific lowlevel dungeon... yeah, that can take a while), right now dungeons are blocking this persons enjoyment of the game - shall we remove them?

Well Im just been defending a person who wrote this thread I dont know if they are new or not and another thread I saw as well over the past month. Everyone here is claiming this content is easy so I dont see exactly where the hard part or challenge is coming from.

Pause for a second do you think that if people actually played the game to its fullest that I would be saying any of what Im saying I wouldnt be. But the fact of the matter is finding friends that want to do a level 50 raid sync isnt easy you have attested to this yourself. This game is not a full game if you want to say Im assuming that its this small group of people Im defending you guys are doing the very same thing counting the random sync party in pf as a bunch of people. Whens the last time you did a sync run of binding coil with some friends are in the pf? The fact of the matter is its not just me I have fc members that ask to do coil and everyone just tells them to unsync it. Even if they nerfed one shot mechanics if those went in sync would they still not have that same challenge? Im not advocating for to remove the challenge Im advocating for unsync to be faceroll because its unsync also I even mention having different moods to fit a persons preference I mention it earlier in one my post.

They could even do a scaled echo if you just wana see the story only then give everyone 90 percent echo. If you want a challenge, then sync it or put as little echo in it as possible. Ive writtin back on this many times so Im sure that where I said different levels of unsync would be better. I just want a purpose to this feature, cause right now it doesnt seem to have one other than undersized parties. If people are runnin stuff unsync and still cant get a clear on something then I think that its something wrong with the feature, like Ive said many times people can fail in sync content. I think an echo scale would actually be good for all content because some people dont want echo at all and some need it. Even tho I doubt as many people as you say really want to do this content I think echo scale would be the best type of compromise.

@Istaru

How would I just want this type thing for myself, I have already mention that I dont do content I havent had the chance to clear sync unsync. So I acutally wouldnt even touch coil like Ive stated many times. Even if its undersized I know that wasnt the original design and that when the content was out that I didnt have fell cleave on warrior, or have royal A for pali so Id rather not do it being that op and call it a clear. Its fabricated to me so I dont even count doing 1 to 5 as doing them it simply was just seeing a cinematic. I would like to see the rest but I stand by my rule for myself, but if others want it easy then let them have it I cant force my agenda and how I play on other people. (Hence Im sayin old and outdated content only dont touch the new stuff)

[HyoMinPark]

Im not advocating for to remove the challenge Im advocating for unsync to be faceroll

If you fail to see that these two things are one and the same, then I don't know what to tell you.

Ive writtin back on this many times so Im sure that where I said different levels of unsync would be better.

Actually, I'm pretty sure you just keep repeating how:

--Unsynced is a trash feature, and it shouldn't even be in this game
--Unsynced should equal automatic clear; if it doesn't, it shouldn't even be in this game
--Unsynced should equal faceroll; if it doesn't, it shouldn't even be in this game

But never have you said that "different levels of unsync" would be a good option.

I just want a purpose to this feature

It does have a purpose. Just because you fail to see it doesn't mean that it's not there.

If people are runnin stuff unsync and still cant get a clear on something then I think that its something wrong with the feature, like Ive said many times people can fail in sync content.

No. If people cannot clear content that is already made easier (note that I am not saying it is without mechanics or automatically faceroll-easy), then that is not a fault of the content or the unsynced feature, but a fault of the player themselves. They need to then step back, take a look at what it is that is giving them so much trouble, and then improve.

This can apply to both synced and unsynced content.

How would I just want this type thing for myself, I have already mention that I dont do content I havent had the chance to clear sync unsync. So I acutally wouldnt even touch coil like Ive stated many times. Even if its undersized I know that wasnt the original design and that when the content was out that I didnt have fell cleave on warrior, or have royal A for pali so Id rather not do it being that op and call it a clear. Its fabricated to me so I dont even count doing 1 to 5 as doing them it simply was just seeing a cinematic.

Again, this sounds like a personal problem.

I would like to see the rest but I stand by my rule for myself, but if others want it easy then let them have it I cant force my agenda and how I play on other people. (Hence Im sayin old and outdated content only dont touch the new stuff)

Stop holding everyone else to your (ridiculous) standards. You are trying to "force" your agenda on other players by advocating for "NERF OR NOTHING" when it comes to Coil or any other "old" or "outdated" content. Don't think that just because you aren't saying to nerf "new stuff" that you aren't asking for nerfs period.

[Vidu]

Well Im just been defending a person who wrote this thread I dont know if they are new or not and another thread I saw as well over the past month. Everyone here is claiming this content is easy so I dont see exactly where the hard part or challenge is coming from.
Pause for a second do you think that if people actually played the game to its fullest that I would be saying any of what Im saying I wouldnt be. But the fact of the matter is finding friends that want to do a level 50 raid sync isnt easy you have attested to this yourself. This game is not a full game if you want to say Im assuming that its this small group of people Im defending you guys are doing the very same thing counting the random sync party in pf as a bunch of people. Whens the last time you did a sync run of binding coil with some friends are in the pf? The fact of the matter is its not just me I have fc members that ask to do coil and everyone just tells them to unsync it. Even if they nerfed one shot mechanics if those went in sync would they still not have that same challenge? Im not advocating for to remove the challenge Im advocating for unsync to be faceroll because its unsync also I even mention having different moods to fit a persons preference I mention it earlier in one my post.

They could even do a scaled echo if you just wana see the story only then give everyone 90 percent echo. If you want a challenge, then sync it or put as little echo in it as possible. Ive writtin back on this many times so Im sure that where I said different levels of unsync would be better. I just want a purpose to this feature, cause right now it doesnt seem to have one other than undersized parties. If people are runnin stuff unsync and still cant get a clear on something then I think that its something wrong with the feature, like Ive said many times people can fail in sync content. I think an echo scale would actually be good for all content because some people dont want echo at all and some need it. Even tho I doubt as many people as you say really want to do this content I think echo scale would be the best type of compromise.

1) We are not only talking about doing this content synched, but also about the enjoyment that can still come from unsyched runs. No one of us is saying that a new person shouldnt be able to enjoy this content unsyched
2) "I just want a purpose to this feature, cause right now it doesnt seem to have one other than undersized parties." - highlighted and copied again, because: That and excatly and only that is the purpose of this feature. You want it to have a purpose? It has one. Exactly the one you mention yourself in the very same sentence. That feature was always to be intended to have excatly that purpose: Not needing a full group anymore. I'm sorry that you missunderstood something here and are still not able to understand what it means.
3) You have "FC members", as in "multiple ones" that would like to do this content synched or unsyched? So, why arent they doing it together?
4) "People are not playing this game to it fullest" - as in "People are not enjoying every aspect of the game" shouldnt never equal "lets cut away everything one specific person doesnt enjoy". My hardcore raiding friend doesnt enjoy crafting, so he isnt enjoying or playing the whole game (and a lot of people dont seem to like crafting). Doesnt mean that crafting has to go. People not enjoying challenging content does not mean that it has to be removed for those who who do.
5) People are "struggeling" with this content because they ignore mechanics. Actively ignore them. You can fail TamTara NM unsyched if you ignore the mechanic of killing the imps at the last boss. You can stand there and the boss wont take any damage unless they're dead. TamTara. Second dungeon in the game. And you can fail it, if you dont do mechanics. OP said himself that they ignored a mechanic and failed because of that. If people got through like 15 dungeons or so (and 6 trials) before they unlock coil and had to deal with mechanics everyhwere, I'm sure they can deal with mechanics in Coil aswell now.
6) If a person cant clear content but thousands of other people were able to - whos at fault here? The person or the content?

You need to stop pampering new people you dont even know and pretend you're acting in their best intrest.

[bswpayton]

1) We are not only talking about doing this content synched, but also about the enjoyment that can still come from unsyched runs. No one of us is saying that a new person shouldnt be able to enjoy this content unsyched

I admit that I didn't know that the op said he purposely skipped the mechanic , I thought that they were sayin that it was just to difficult for them to get past. I havent brought it up but I know my friends that are full time crafters did some unsync runs of coil turn 9 and cleared it maybe 13 to I dont remember. So knowing that they stay out of battle content , I didnt really think that it was too difficult.

I thought that maybe the op just simply couldnt get past the one shot mechanics , its 300 something reply's on here so I guess I missed it. But if its avoidable one shot stuff then I mean you just have to kinda figure it out (but I still think that scaling echo would be a better solution for those whom dont even wana do this). I remember when I did t5 I was wondering what it was that was killin me so I looked up msqtech and saw what the deal was and it was pretty simple. I was under the impression that some people where just having trouble in general and was sayin that , sense its old an outdated it shouldnt be the case. So I apologize missing that tid bit, but I do still believe for uysnc to actually mean something that it should in fact lead to an automatic clear. NO not just the mob explode and they are dead but people shouldnt have to spend more than a few hours for stuff that people arent even runnin on a regular basis anymore

[Vidu]

I was under the impression that some people where just having trouble in general and was sayin that , sense its old an outdated it shouldnt be the case. So I apologize missing that tid bit, but I do still believe for uysnc to actually mean something that it should in fact lead to an automatic clear. NO not just the mob explode and they are dead but people shouldnt have to spend more than a few hours for stuff that people arent even runnin on a regular basis anymore

Are you aware what automatic clear means? Maybe english isnt your first language, but automatic pretty much means "it happens without you doing anything". That is "mobs just explode". Currently you dont have to spend more than a few hours to get any coil-clears when running the content unsyched - you have however to know what you're doing. If you dont know what you're doing in TamTara NM, you can stay in that dungeon in the end and never finish it while the timer runs out.

Unsyched T11 (the turn the OP was having trouble with) has basically three things you need to look out for and I've listed them for you before:
- dont stand in Kalias hitbox because or barofield - this isnt even a problem if you're level 60, just a good thing not to do
- keep the adds seperated from each other and kill two of them roughly at the same time (bonus if you dont stand in your group with lightning and if you stay close to the adds, so you can actually deal damage)
- keep blue and green theters apart from each other.

It is not much. It is not difficult. OP even said somewhere that he guessed they had to keep the adds apart from each other but that they didnt know that before. They even figured it out, knew what their mistake was but instead of trying again and excuting the mechanic correctly they felt that it was to difficult to do.
(to be fair: they also talked about to possibilty of the boss glichting, which would be a technical error, that needs fixing, but not adjustment of the content)
"Automatic", 100% clears can only happen without any mechanics, however simple they may be, present.
You have stated again and again that you've never set foot into those fights. You cant possibly judge how hard or easy and how "nerf-worthy" they are. Please stop doing that, until you've seen the fight - and if you never see it because of your self inflicted limitations, dont speak about it again.

[bswpayton]

Are you aware what automatic clear means? Maybe english isnt your first language, but automatic pretty much means "it happens without you doing anything". That is "mobs just explode". Currently you dont have to spend more than a few hours to get any coil-clears when running the content unsyched - you have however to know what you're doing. If .

Ill leave at this vidu , I know Im excited about stormblood and love the new video we share the same main and paladins new skill looks pretty awesome. And the forums will only let us post so much in a day. This is just a matter of we disagree on a feature like Ive said many times unsync is just one of those things I view very differently than other people I think it degrades the game I hate the feature. I cringe when people even ask me to take part in it but I do it because its there and its just the normal thing to do in this game.

The only way I feel ok with using the feature is the method I have made for myself which is sync first unsync after or visa versa Ive mention Im not takin rewards if unsync is the only way I have cleared something. This is just my personal thing, I dont expect others to follow I will always as a mentor encourage doing something sync to get a real feel for the content. But I know what I see Unsync being used for and its use to make things simple, its used to crunch time into minutes where It could take 15 to 20 I get it. But the Idea that people if they are using unsync want the content to be hard just doesnt strike me as realistic maybe some yea sure but if they doing it unsync they want it easier than the alternative at that particular time. So Im simply sayin I wouldnt be against the option of havin it so simple that it is basically like doing a lvl 15 dungeon for the most part it is. If you could do a 1 min quest and just get all the arr ponies from that quest I dont see why anyone would ever bother doing the arr primals again.

So thats what Im sayin is that in most cases it does mean automatic clear, I guess with coil it isnt, with alex savage it wont be. But because alexs story is separated we shouldnt have the same issue with it like we do with coil having its story in all parts. So basically what Im sayin is give me a challenge through sync content. If I want to run something unsync then at that point I dont care about challenge I care about something thats on the other end of that 5 min unsync experience and I dont really see how thats not clear to you as well that most of the people you see in pf makin groups are expressing the samething. So if thats all that most people want then , I was just simply sayin that make it as simple as possible and that is just where disagree. People ask for facts nobody knows everyone in the game but I know a few things nobody here can tell me that they see more sync runs of old content as they do unsync ones so if thats the case then we know the reason why(I certainly dont see come get your challenge in them).

[Vidu]

Ill leave at this vidu , I know Im excited about stormblood and love the new video we share the same main and paladins new skill looks pretty awesome.

I am seriously considering changing my main class after this.

We dont "disgaree". You are simply using words without understanding their meaning and talking about things you dont know about. You're not doing any fact-checking but just blabbering out your opinion. I will not even be closly associated with this. And I feel I need say something really rude now which is: I dont care about you. I dont care what limitations you put on yourself or for whatever self-inflicted reasons you're not playing content. Dont care. Stop telling me/us about it. It doesnt matter.

Unsyched content is not hard, really - but at the same time its also not "beating a dummy"-easy. Look up the meaning of the word "automatic", please.

And... I just... cant anymore. This is to much for me. This is "I feel that it is like that and therefore its a fact" - the way of reasoning and thinking that got freaking Trump elected (I tried very, very hard to avoid this analogy for as long as possible, but I cant anymore)

At this point I'm just willing to live with the knowledge that a person who doesnt understand the meaning of the word "automatic" doesnt understand what I'm saying. I'm cool with that. Yep.

Now excuse me while I throw my paladin weapon out of the window and go and main bard.