As a healer, is it my job to DPS? A new perspective.

[bounddreamer]

That chart above is pure gold



This detail in particular interests me the most as I'm in a very similar setting all told and whilst it works nicely for us, it's clear it's not particularly optimal. Even on the run that got my co healer world second on A12S (pre echo), our combined DPS was barely top 50 material. On the flipside, when I'm on SCH and DPSing, my damage numbers aren't close to his, but I subconsciously bubble big hits and such even if it's not 'needed'. It makes me wonder if an aggressive 'main healer' coupled with a cautious but DPS capable SCH would actually be more effective overall.

Let me know how your combined numbers add up, it'd definitely be interesting to see <3

We have more runs coming up (all we have left to do is bird farm for static members) so I'll ask if we can record and share those. I'll get some video footage too. We had great runs when he was main heal and I was off healer and I think the results are worth sharing.

I'm so familiar with the fight that I know exactly where I can dps and exactly where I can't, but I know I probably have room for improvement in the final phase. I'm mostly focused on tethers and default to shielding and/or healing at that point.

[Feyona]

So does everyone else, well all believe in choices. Why is "choice" exclusive to you? Is it because if someone were to "choose"





Please note that all of my questions are rhetorical so please don't cut out my entire post to answer a question out of context.

Stormbad why do you perceive in anything what Ive said that I think anything is exclusive to me?
When I talk of choice I mean everyone's . Thats why Ive asked for it to be made more clear to people. And I may not be able to quote it all cos of space and thats the only reason Ive cut anyone's. Fund doing things properly hard on controller . No one has said anyone's wrong, about it. Even someone being kicked I said its up to amelia if she wants to. I really dont mind burning my game time for others Its one of the things I most enjoy ... Playing with people. They are more important than optimal play

[Stormbad]

Stormbad why do you perceive in anything what Ive said that I think anything is exclusive to me?

I perceive it that way because your opposing response is to include those words. When you say "something something BUT something something" you are identifying the other person's argument then stating your opposing response. Now if you said "something something AND something something" then your response isn't opposing but then what is there to disagree on in the first place?

When I talk of choice I mean everyone's .

Like I said before, if this is true, then why are you bothered by people who reply in this thread, regardless of their views?

Thats why Ive asked for it to be made more clear to people.

If you're talking about a PF with a description, what could people possibly do to make it more clear? We all expect that everyone can clearly read and understand instructions so given that assumption, what more do people need to do to make things more clear?

If you're taling about healer dps meta, what is there to clear up? You get a set of skills and you either use them or you don't use them. As a healer, these include a set of skills that do damage. You go through your MSQ and many side quests which require you to fight and you use those skills. There are guildhests which describe that healers can dps.

And I may not be able to quote it all cos of space and thats the only reason Ive cut anyone's. Fund doing things properly hard on controller .

If you're typing on a controller, I assume you are on PS3/4. I really do feel bad for you because when my son first started to play on the PS4, it would take forever to type anything until I got him a keyboard. I totally understand that.

No one has said anyone's wrong, about it. Even someone being kicked I said its up to amelia if she wants to. I really dont mind burning my game time for others Its one of the things I most enjoy ... Playing with people. They are more important than optimal play

If you aren't saying anyone is wrong, then what have we been discussing these past pages worth of thread? Are you willing to acknowledge that the original group who kicked you for not DPSing are within their right?

[Feyona]

Saying this though the kind of intolerece I find grieves me a little that this is the state of affairs. Im not sure I really want to play this game any more really, partially because people may only want to play with optimal players and partially because of how my views were treated here. And the sort of negativity within the community towards people that just want to enjoy the game. You can take it how you want, I wont be putting up with it any more. I tried to state a case for healers to be left alone to enjoy healing how they want to but as you see its not a popular idea. If it bothers people so much that healers dont want the stress of healer dps and healers cant be left to it .... Taika is right I should find a better environment to be in

[bounddreamer]

Fey, it seems like you're not able to make a distinction between discussion of meta, and behavior in game. As well as the huge difference between people's attitudes in casual content versus progression in new savage/extreme content versus geared out people who want to push optimal play and break barriers while we wait for new content.

Related note, there are some amazing solo heals happening right now.

A lot of people have expressed frustration, or intolerance if you will, that attempting discussion with you has been an exercise in shifting goal posts.

[Judge_Xero]

Remind me when I get a decent internet connection again to upload an A11s so you can critique why I always feel so overstretched going into final phase double whirlwinds, I'm pretty certain I'm napping and not getting back into the middle soon enough or such and it's always felt a bit too tight at that point =(

<3 solid second opinions.

Absolutely!! I like discussing different healer strats and watching others videos on how they do things.

Part of what you're seeing in that fight is a lack of synergy between our two healers. Our main healer doesn't trust that he'll get help when he needs it in a pinch, so he neglects those dps windows because our SCH stayed dps stance so much. And I know he'd agree with you on those indoms and succors during tower phases because I remember him asking for that! The problem was once Akiva proved he could heal through it, Astraea let him. Also, our off healer is in TS with us but never uses a mic, only text chat. So that's a strong consideration in shifting him to an actual dps slot while someone with a mic takes point on heals.

Good critiques. We definitely tightened things up after the first clear and that one was a bit sloppy bc of various reasons.

I definitely got that impression watching your video. It's like watching tanks have a power struggle on who is the MT when really they have to work together to be optimal. (i.e. PLD/DRK pulls the boss on all fights when Unchained opener is by far the most optimal). I'm sure you tightened things up more with more clears. I'm pretty sure on my first clear half the party was dead. It's a good idea to shift roles around to who can build the most synergy together for tanks and healers because of how important it is, that's awesome that your group as a whole is able to make those decisions.

This detail in particular interests me the most as I'm in a very similar setting all told and whilst it works nicely for us, it's clear it's not particularly optimal. Even on the run that got my co healer world second on A12S (pre echo), our combined DPS was barely top 50 material. On the flipside, when I'm on SCH and DPSing, my damage numbers aren't close to his, but I subconsciously bubble big hits and such even if it's not 'needed'. It makes me wonder if an aggressive 'main healer' coupled with a cautious but DPS capable SCH would actually be more effective overall.

Having an aggressive Main Heals with a cautious Support Heals (unless you are trying to optimize as much as possible, then there's really no distinction between the two) is much better than having an aggressive Support Heals and a cautious Main Heals because while you may end up with extra shielding with a cautious support healer, both healers will be healing optimal and with high DPS. (because DiAST and WHM potencies are so high it's best that they are aggressive with how they use their CDs in order to make DPS windows for both healers)

Here's an example of that although it's pre and post Echo it should give a good representation

Damage Pre-Echo - Cautious MH
Healing Pre-Echo - Cautious MH

Damage Post Echo Aggressive MH
Healing Post Echo Aggressive Heals

-------------------------

Looking at A11S - Sebazy comparison - Aggressive VS Conservative

Usually the biggest difference in healer DPS is how hard the first phase is pushed. Keep in mind some of the difference is made up of pushing mechanics and optimal comps.

Sebazy Healer DPS

Sebazy Heals

JX Healer DPS

JX Heals

[AmeliaVerves]

snip

I am very, deeply sorry. How wrong I was... I just realised, please forgive me.

parataxic distortion

I know what it means and in fact it's not hard to explain. It simply means you have uber expectations/ build up a picture of a person to which this person will never be able to live up to.
You didn't answered where anything I said would be a reason for you to bring up that term at all, but since I already know the answer (Spoiler: I didn't so there is no reason. :x) you don't need to respond to that anymore, thanks.

as I noted your not english

1. Where did you note I am not english? I said so, but you did not until now.
2. lol. My english is way better than yours.

And because I cannot resist:

Saying this though the kind of intolerece I find grieves me a little that this is the state of affairs. Im not sure I really want to play this game any more really, partially because people may only want to play with optimal players and partially because of how my views were treated here. And the sort of negativity within the community towards people that just want to enjoy the game. You can take it how you want, I wont be putting up with it any more. I tried to state a case for healers to be left alone to enjoy healing how they want to but as you see its not a popular idea. If it bothers people so much that healers dont want the stress of healer dps and healers cant be left to it .... Taika is right I should find a better environment to be in

Because one GIF is not enough:

[Stormbad]

This solo A12s one blew me away for several reasons.

1. Pre-echo
2. Solo tank
3. MCH dies

I don't think the healer ever went into cleric stance and seemed perpetually out of mana LOL.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqQ0_aqLmRI

[Stormbad]

Saying this though the kind of intolerece I find grieves me a little that this is the state of affairs. Im not sure I really want to play this game any more really, partially because people may only want to play with optimal players and partially because of how my views were treated here. And the sort of negativity within the community towards people that just want to enjoy the game. You can take it how you want, I wont be putting up with it any more. I tried to state a case for healers to be left alone to enjoy healing how they want to but as you see its not a popular idea. If it bothers people so much that healers dont want the stress of healer dps and healers cant be left to it .... Taika is right I should find a better environment to be in

Most FFXIV players do not care to play optimally. Just look at the thread in General called "Tales from Duty Finder" as anecdotal proof.
You won't be putting up with people disagreeing with your position and asking for clarification and proof? Well good for you, you should do what makes you happy.
You tried to state the case for healers to be left alone in... which environment? Casual content or harder content? Because you still haven't been able to distinguish between them. If casual content, guess what, everyone has the same position as you, yes, leave them alone, yes irritating but they play how they want. For harder content where there is an expectation of performance, absolutely not. Not just the healers but every individual will be criticized on non-optimal play and expected to improve.
Yes you need to be in an environment where nobody disagrees with you. And where in the real world does that exist? I can save you time. Nowhere.

[Feyona]

.

I dont think Ive really enjoyed the game much since I was kicked tbh when I actually believed it was ok to heal That hasnt been the entire basis of my discussion though I just tried to state why it could be an issue. I was happy healing, and went from clearing sophia to a9s as a healing scholar. Guess Im disheartened. Your right progression is different from casual I can make that distinction. Even if not stated by answering every point I feel just as frustrated.Note I do get the idea of what you say Its mostly the incorrect assumtions or defamations as well, people being able to say what they like to me and even being told to 'shut up' Really this is how people are treated. It even gets likes and I think what sort of people am I trying to talk to here? Thes are the people on the game that Im trying to enjoy. Its just not going to happen is it? Not saying I havent bitten back but 6 onto one? You at least got where I was coming from once