A Crazy Solution To The Growing Problems of Inadequate Preparation For Duties.

[Nicodemus_Mercy]

No you dont, you can get by in this game by reacting to mechanics as they happen. All you need is understanding on how the combat works. And once you understand that, you should be able to play any job at least moderately effectively by reading tooltips and fitting the pieces together.

Can't say I agree with that assessment. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I avoid playing the dps classes in group content because I can't perform well with them nor is it fun to try because the rotations at 60 are just too complex for me. I don't have the physical dexterity nor the mental acumen to keep track of all the different buttons and when to press them. I just can't handle the finger gymnastics. SE seems to realize this is an issue. The combat revamp in SB will hopefully make dps classes a bit less hectic to play and perform decently with. Following fight mechanics won't make dps rotations any less complex. Even if you perform all the mechanics correctly, just "reading tooltips" won't make you capable of "fitting the pieces together" when the puzzle is a Picasso to begin with.

[Zojha]

I just can't handle the finger gymnastics.

You say finger gymnastics, but I literally just press my skills with left click except for the easily reach-able 1-2-3 and I can perform quite decently. I mean, not exceptionally - My savage parses are only around 50th percentile, so average. But it's enough to get by >_>

[Nicodemus_Mercy]

You say finger gymnastics, but I literally just press my skills with left click except for the easily reach-able 1-2-3 and I can perform quite decently. I mean, not exceptionally - My savage parses are only around 50th percentile, so average. But it's enough to get by >_>

Not everyone is you though. What might be easy for you may not be easy for someone else. And also keep in mind, while you might find "getting by" acceptable, large swathes of the community tear people apart (either privately to their friends or to the person directly in chat) for low parses.

[Zojha]

What might be easy for you may not be easy for someone else.

Did I claim that? No. What I claimed was that finger gymnastics are not needed and I think that's true, because there are several ways to reduce the amount of finger movement needed. Some people click, others buy a gaming mouse with 16 buttons, again others bind the hotbars to their mousewheel so they don't need to bother with CTRL/Shift, again others bind all the keys around their movement keys to hotbar slots, again others play without mouse entirely and use both hands, while others go straight for a controller. The technique is fairly individual, you gotta find what works for you.

I do think, though, that if someone is using the term "finger gymnastics" to describe playing a DPS, it sounds like something is wrong with their technique because none such gymnastics are necessary in the first place. It gives off the impression of someone who makes things harder for themselves than need be and then blames the game that it's too hard.
Now, it can of course be that you're just plain old or disabled. There are people with ADHD, there's alzheimer's, knuckle rot and a great many other things that can impair a person both physically and mentally. If that's your case, my condolences and apologies. In my argument, I'm assuming a healthy person somewhere between 18 and 50, because that's where the majority of gamers is gonna lie.

[Nicodemus_Mercy]

Did I claim that? No. What I claimed was that finger gymnastics are not needed and I think that's true, because there are several ways to reduce the amount of finger movement needed. Some people click, others buy a gaming mouse with 16 buttons, again others bind the hotbars to their mousewheel so they don't need to bother with CTRL/Shift, again others bind all the keys around their movement keys to hotbar slots, again others play without mouse entirely and use both hands, while others go straight for a controller. The technique is fairly individual, you gotta find what works for you.

I do think, though, that if someone is using the term "finger gymnastics" to describe playing a DPS, it sounds like something is wrong with their technique because none such gymnastics are necessary in the first place. It gives off the impression of someone who makes things harder for themselves than need be and then blames the game that it's too hard.
Now, it can of course be that you're just plain old or disabled. There are people with ADHD, there's alzheimer's, knuckle rot and a great many other things that can impair a person both physically and mentally. If that's your case, my condolences and apologies. In my argument, I'm assuming a healthy person somewhere between 18 and 50, because that's where the majority of gamers is gonna lie.

Ultimately when I say finger gymnastics I am saying there's too many buttons that need to be hit too frequently during dps rotations for me to perform them well enough to not be considered "terribad".

There are classes that have maintenance buffs that need refreshing every 15+ seconds or so.
There are classes that have abilities that can only be used while they have buff from something else.
There are classes that have procs to take advantage of.
There are classes with combo abilities that must be hit in a certain order.
There are classes that have positional abilities to worry about.

How many classes have more than one of the above? Do any of the classes have ALL of the above?

You said

You say finger gymnastics, but I literally just press my skills with left click except for the easily reach-able 1-2-3 and I can perform quite decently.

In doing so you implied that its not difficult for anyone to "perform quite decently" by just hitting 1-2-3 and left clicking the rest. Which is why I replied as I did. That's great that 1-2-3 and left clicking the rest works for you and that you can perform at a level adequate enough to avoid the scorn of your peers in the doing. But that does not mean that anyone can "hit 1-2-3 and left click the rest" and perform well enough to not be considered bad dps. I know I certainly can't. I can't juggle Enochian/Fire IV/Blizzard IV well enough to put out the expected dps. Maybe you can. Maybe its really easy for you to do that. It's not for me.

The problem is not my "technique". The problem is that I am not you. I do not think think and react in the same way you do or at the same speed you do. I may not have the same physical dexterity as you do. My brain may not be capable of keeping track of too many different things going on at the same time in the way yours is. While health and age do play a role in these things (and for me specifically both apply), assuming a healthy 18-50 year old "should" be capable of doing what you are capable of doing is ridiculous.

You're saying it's not difficult to do "adequately" by hitting 1-2-3 and left clicking the rest.

I'm saying it's not difficult for YOU to do "adequately" by hitting 1-2-3 and left clicking the rest, but that it doesn't mean that its not difficult for someone who isn't you, young and healthy or not.

Finally, and I'm not saying this to you specifically Zojha, cause you aren't someone saying this sort of thing, but there’s nothing more horrible than feeling like a idiot because something is really hard for you — and then having some irritating expert say “No, no, no, actually it’s super-easy”.

It’s not. At least, not necessarily, and certainly not for everyone.

The problem isn't my technique. The problem is, and SE agrees it's a problem, that dps rotations have become too complex and SE intends to address it in Stormblood.

—Can you tell us more about what’s planned for the battle system revamp?

Yoshida: We’re not going to be rebuilding it from the ground up. We’re concentrating on two things with this revamp. During 3.x, the action rotation for high DPS became very complex. We saw a large gap form regarding DPS from skilled and technical players and more casual players and so we wanted to bring up the bottom.

When the developers of the game say "During 3.x, the action rotation for high DPS became very complex" how can anyone argue with that? I certainly can't. Post-50 skills jumped the difficulty tremendously for me at the very least. I doubt I am the only one.