As a healer, is it my job to DPS? A new perspective.

[bounddreamer]

The original quote, if I remember from the massive bloat of this thread, had to do with healers standing around in easy content, not healing (because it wasn't needed) and not dpsing either. That was when people in this thread indicated they'd kick a healer.

However a lot of people have also backed off that initial stance because it's important to make a distinction between someone who's basically afk in between casting an occasional heal, and someone who's present and not dpsing because they're new to an instance, or new to healing in FFXIV in general, or new to balancing healing and dps specifically. And it can be hard to recognize the difference.

I had a healer in Dzemael this morning. I'm a BiS tank and I was using cooldowns and souleater combo (self heals). I rarely needed heals. The healer was low fifties and spent most of the time casting unnecessary heals. I looked at their profile and it was the only job they had at that level (and no SC) so I guessed they're a relatively new player and didn't ask them to dps.

It seems like it's worth stating, yet again, that whether a healer can or even should dps depends on the situation. That's really the essence of the conclusion for any dps advocate. And so far I haven't seen anyone disagree.

[Feyona]

Do we really need to go over this again? Please Feyona, I'm tired of it.......

If you can give me concrete evidence that anything but the sheer minority of players that you come across expect DPS no matter how intensive the healing, then I will concede defeat and I'll even eat my hat. So far you have used the word "them" and given out of context, unsourced quotes that even if they were in context and sourced is merely anecdotal and doesn't represent a wholesome view of the issue.

Your so wrong and you obviously dont understand my points your the one always trying to argue with me and you dont main heal, so why cant you just accept this is the game experience there is alot of expectation for healers to dps and with no offence to amelia verves above that she stated above that she kicked a non dpsing healer. There is your pressure. Its up to amelia if she doesnt want that in her group but the rest of some people would like to heal without that pressure

[Feyona]

The original quote, if I remember from the massive bloat of this thread, had to do with healers standing around in easy content, not healing (because it wasn't needed) and not dpsing either. That was when people in this thread indicated they'd kick a healer.



It seems like it's worth stating, yet again, that whether a healer can or even should dps depends on the situation. That's really the essence of the conclusion for any dps advocate. And so far I haven't seen anyone disagree.

Yes absolutely, and dont disagree with this at all but would also like to point out here I have a distiction between old content and current content because people may still be learning the latter. As experience in game though, shows people still believe all healers should be able to dps.

[Kitfox]

It's normal that bad players face more persecution than good players, no matter the role. It's just how the human mind works. People only look for culprits when things start going wrong: mobs are running wild, the tank is dying, targets aren't dying fast enough and so on. This isn't a healer specific problem: if you're a crappy DPS or a tank, you can sure that people are gonna call you out more often than not.

The solutions are to practice so you're part of the good players and don't get harrassed, or avoid environments where you do by partying with friends and other tolerant players. You can only expect the worst from random strangers.

[Feyona]

It's normal that bad players face more persecution than good players, no matter the role. It's just how the human mind works. People only look for culprits when things start going wrong: mobs are running wild, the tank is dying, targets aren't dying fast enough and so on. This isn't a healer specific problem: if you're a crappy DPS or a tank, you can sure that people are gonna call you out more often than not.

Yes ofc I may even put myself in the awful category when Im learning a fight like savage. These points are from recent experience of farming zurvan with a co healer friend who was that worried about not dpsing enough put alot of pressure on me to solo heal with the comment we ' we will be kicked if we dont dps' My friend I think has done zurvan over 100 times so he would know what the expectation is.

[bounddreamer]

My friend I think has done zurvan over 100 times so he would know what the expectation is.

It's also important to make the distinction between casual content and savage/extreme learning versus savage/extreme farm .

I've done Zurvan extreme probably about that many times. Stopped counting after I got my birb. I've done it on SCH, WHM, and AST. I've done it with my static and I've done it with PF groups.

It's 100% expected that both healers will dps during the opener because there is so little outgoing damage until the drop. Shield and regen the tank, shield and regen the BLM who isn't going to move, and both healers can break 1500 easy in the opener.

After the drop, it fully depends on the tank and the party on whether the healer(s) can dps.

With my static, I can basically solo heal until final phase unless people Do the Dumb. (Don't do mechanics.) Then I may need some help during Tyrfing, broken seal, stack marker etc. With my static, I can dps almost the whole fight if my static healer is main healing. We are in voice chat together and tell each other what's going on. I coordinate eye for an eye usage and virus usage with my team.

In party finder it's a complete and total crap shoot but since February I have yet to get a group that can consistently get multiple clears. And there is no trust with random party finder healers. They'll either overheal when I expect to be main healing, or they'll dps when the party is being dumb and taking damage.

If a group is going to kick you for not doing dps when the party is taking a stupid amount of damage due to their own mistakes, that group was a waste of time to begin with. Don't stress it.

[Wanzer]

Please, Feyona... It's not because you aren't agree with someone that the person is just too stupid to understand a word from you...

and you dont main heal, so why cant you just accept this is the game experience there is alot of expectation for healers

And this isn't even an argument... You don't need to be main to know how it works... Especially if you are someone who really want to improve your group and/or your playstyle, you have to know how everything works! And even if it wasn't everything... I mean... I'm warrior too, but not as main, does it mean my opinion is irrelevant about what the community waits from the tanks or how things work? I mean, we still have eyes, or friends, or people around...

And, by saying this, it's exactly as if you were saying : just shut up, thanks. :/

your the one always trying to argue with me

No. He's the one asking you concrete evidences about what you say (as usual, unfortunately).

I'm not sure, but maybe you should stop using your DeLorean. It's probably not safe for the time continuum.

[Sebazy]

so why cant you just accept this is the game experience there is alot of expectation for healers to dps and with no offence to amelia verves above that she stated above that she kicked a non dpsing healer. There is your pressure. Its up to amelia if she doesnt want that in her group but the rest of some people would like to heal without that pressure

How is that in anyway different to a DPS that's underperforming in a farm?

Amelia set a bar they expected the SCH to perform at, the SCH didn't meet that bar and thus got removed from the group. It'd be no different if it was a DRG, BRD or even an off tank.

Everyone is under pressure to perform in savage/extreme content, because frankly, one dead weight is sometimes all it takes to stop a sub optimal pug from clearing. If you think this is unique to healers then you are sincerely wrong. It's just a little more obvious when the healers (Or a tank ofc) mess up. If you don't enjoy the pressure, steer clear of the content that goes with it. But please leave it alone for those that relish the challenge, I'll say it again, just be glad you weren't raiding during A1S-A4S. This tier is a complete cakewalk compared to what Gordias progression was like.

Simply put, if I join a pug run for A12S and the group already has a healy centric WHM, I will find another group to join. It's just common sense and courtesy.

[Lyth]

In 8-man trials/raids, I am yet to see a solo healer or main-healer get kicked for not doing enough dps. What will get you into trouble, however, is if you're not contributing to dps as an off-healer. In fact, the person who you'll probably annoy the most by doing this is your co-healer, when you wastefully overheal the same targets and completely disregard the opportunities that they give you to put up your dots. The main-healer/off-healer roles become more fluid when you coordinate to maximize your combined dot uptime and dps. That being said, if you're a SCH, there's usually more of an expectation that you will be more dps focused and will intervene only when necessary.

That's not to say that you can't dps while solo or main healing. All the best ones do. But it's more of a pleasant surprise than an expectation. This is evidenced by the absolutely enormous variance in WHM/AST dps this tier, compared with that of nearly any other job including SCH. Even the act of putting your dots up will push you above the median, and it's not like groups are kicking 50% of the WHMs and ASTs who enter Creator Savage. It's really only when you get into much higher percentiles and skill levels that you start to see main healers who have absolutely mastered fight timings, and the competition gets fiercer.

While not every player mains or even plays healers, your teammates are usually able to tell if you know what you're doing. If the group is taking a lot of avoidable damage and messing up mechanics, nobody will fault you for focusing on keeping the group alive. But if your main healer is comfortably solo healing all of the incoming damage while pushing their dps, and you're spamming adlo on a full health tank with your toe while watching TV, you can bet that someone is going to catch on real quick. You don't need to do exceptional dps. You just need to keep up at least a believable pretence of doing something useful in order to fly under the radar.

4-man dungeons tend to have a wider range of expectations, simply because the wider player-base enters them. You could annoy someone by not dpsing on a healer, but you just as easily could annoy someone by dpsing a lot. The best thing to do is to get through the dungeon quickly and efficiently before people have a chance to formulate an opinion on the matter.

[Feyona]

Please, Feyona... It's not because you aren't agree with someone that the person is just too stupid to understand a word from you...


And, by saying this, it's exactly as if you were saying : just shut up, thanks. :/


I'm not sure, but maybe you should stop using your DeLorean. It's probably not safe for the time continuum.

Ive already said you cant give concrete evidence of pressure, its like saying germs dont exist because you cant see it. I agree your all capable of making judgements of what others should or shouldnt do or even quaified opinions if what they can do in a moment of time what you cant say is how somethi ng makes someone feel unless you experience it yourself. So if you dont main heal how would you know what the pressure is like? And lambdafish, no offence but it really doesnt seem you understand what Im saying or you refuse to take my word for it. Thats ok I dont mind but I cannot give evidence of what pressure is like. Just put two and two together I guess a healer is a heal priority is heals if people want you to dps fine if you can. Not fine if you feel you cant cos your learnig fight it woul not be ok for me not to heal though that would warrent a kick not warranted for not doing 2 jobs