seeing all these total newbie tank is hilarious

[Zojha]

Outside of that Hall, the game doesn't tell you to Shield Lob + 2-3 Flash every pull [...]

The hall doesn't teach you that either. The hall teaches you that Flash is an AoE enmity skill you should use if you engage multiple enemies and asks you to hit a couple dummies with it. The class quest does teach you the exact same thing - The NPC yells at you to please use flash to keep enemies away from him. The tooltip tells you it gives enmity to enemies around you - and since it is the only spell in your repertoire to do so, it's a no-brainer you should use it when there are multiple enemies around. ESPECIALLY when said multiple enemies are hitting someone else.

And no, the game doesn't tell you exactly how much enmity you'll generate - a flaw, in my opinion. It should be stated on the tooltip the same way potency is stated in the tooltips. That means you'll actually have to spend a few packs (potentially an entire dungeon) trying out whether you should just spam Savage Blade, Flash, your first or second combo by systematically trying one after the other - Regardless of what happens, you'll at least use flash once however, unless you are illiterate or oblivious, because using flash at least once against multiple enemies is a no-brainer.

The person in the OP didn't even manage to figure out the no-brainer that the game is explicitly telling you about on two occasions. And when he was explicitly told, he STILL failed to apply that knowledge because he apparently never used that skill before in over 7 levels. And that also rules out the excuse of being illiterate. He's either oblivious or stupid or both and neither has anything to do with being new nor with being tank. Stop cracking this up to being "new".

I mean, okay, it could be I'm an exceptionally intelligent human being and my standards are simply too high. Maybe you can't expect people to notice the huge screen filling mention:"LEVEL UP! YOU LEARNED THIS SKILL!" and then hover their cursor over one out of four skills on your crammed hotbar and try it out. Maybe you can't expect people to make the connection between the words "All nearby enemies" and the fact that there are multiple enemies not attacking you. Maybe you can't expect people to notice something doesn't work and try something different. I don't know.

When I started tanking, I personally knew to use flash once just from reading the tooltip and then simply tried around to find what works, since nobody was kind enough to tell me. I tried keeping aggro with the aggro combo and it didn't work, so I tried something different. I tried keeping aggro just spamming Savage Blade and it didn't work, so I tried something different. Then I tried spamming flash and getting the mana back via riot blade and that worked. And if it hadn't worked, I'd have gone:
"My apologies, but does someone know what I'm doing wrong? I'm trying everything, but I can't seem to be able to keep aggro." In the vast majority of cases, you get a positive reply to that.

Maybe that is too much to ask. I don't know. I don't think it is. And I understand it when people make fun of people who are unable to do that. I personally try not to do it myself in case the person on the other hand is mentally disabled in one way or the other, but I can't help privately laughing at idiots either. As such, the most important thing to me is that it remains anonymous. And since that happened in the OP, I think it's best to just chuckle and move on.

/endrant

[Tanathya]

Snip

I have leveled my tanks on 2.0, and let me tell you, not once have I ever had any problems. Not once, ever. We just kicked a WAR out of Aurum Vale for having a lv31 weapon and lv1 to 28 accessories, not to mention the armor itself. If everyone keeps excusing their lazy attitudes, there's no way we're ever gonna raise the skill ceiling, which is ridiculously low.

[KokonoeAiyoko]

The hall doesn't teach you that either. The hall teaches you that Flash is an AoE enmity skill you should use if you engage multiple enemies and asks you to hit a couple dummies with it. The class quest does teach you the exact same thing - The NPC yells at you to please use flash to keep enemies away from him. The tooltip tells you it gives enmity to enemies around you - and since it is the only spell in your repertoire to do so, it's a no-brainer you should use it when there are multiple enemies around. ESPECIALLY when said multiple enemies are hitting someone else.

And no, the game doesn't tell you exactly how much enmity you'll generate - a flaw, in my opinion. It should be stated on the tooltip the same way potency is stated in the tooltips. That means you'll actually have to spend a few packs (potentially an entire dungeon) trying out whether you should just spam Savage Blade, Flash, your first or second combo by systematically trying one after the other - Regardless of what happens, you'll at least use flash once however, unless you are illiterate or oblivious, because using flash at least once against multiple enemies is a no-brainer.

The person in the OP didn't even manage to figure out the no-brainer that the game is explicitly telling you about on two occasions. And when he was explicitly told, he STILL failed to apply that knowledge because he apparently never used that skill before in over 7 levels. And that also rules out the excuse of being illiterate. He's either oblivious or stupid or both and neither has anything to do with being new nor with being tank. Stop cracking this up to being "new".

I mean, okay, it could be I'm an exceptionally intelligent human being and my standards are simply too high. Maybe you can't expect people to notice the huge screen filling mention:"LEVEL UP! YOU LEARNED THIS SKILL!" and then hover their cursor over one out of four skills on your crammed hotbar and try it out. Maybe you can't expect people to make the connection between the words "All nearby enemies" and the fact that there are multiple enemies not attacking you. Maybe you can't expect people to notice something doesn't work and try something different. I don't know.

When I started tanking, I personally knew to use flash once just from reading the tooltip and then simply tried around to find what works, since nobody was kind enough to tell me. I tried keeping aggro with the aggro combo and it didn't work, so I tried something different. I tried keeping aggro just spamming Savage Blade and it didn't work, so I tried something different. Then I tried spamming flash and getting the mana back via riot blade and that worked. And if it hadn't worked, I'd have gone:
"My apologies, but does someone know what I'm doing wrong? I'm trying everything, but I can't seem to be able to keep aggro." In the vast majority of cases, you get a positive reply to that.

Maybe that is too much to ask. I don't know. I don't think it is. And I understand it when people make fun of people who are unable to do that. I personally try not to do it myself in case the person on the other hand is mentally disabled in one way or the other, but I can't help privately laughing at idiots either. As such, the most important thing to me is that it remains anonymous. And since that happened in the OP, I think it's best to just chuckle and move on.

/endrant

This is one of the most egotistical and condescendingly written posts I've read on this forum. There are far more variables than what you are listing. Hell, you don't even mention if this is that persons first MMORPG, and you are so critical over the fact if they miss a tool tip. "Le gasp! They didn't read the tool tip? What inferior intellect they must have! Let's justify laughing at this novice player!".

[winsock]

And when he was explicitly told, he STILL failed to apply that knowledge because he apparently never used that skill before in over 7 levels. And that also rules out the excuse of being illiterate. He's either oblivious or stupid or both and neither has anything to do with being new nor with being tank. Stop cracking this up to being "new".

This is just someone being new. The dead giveaway is that this problem will eventually be resolved, not because ffxiv made this person more intelligent, but because they become a person who is more experienced.

Telling someone how to ride a bike doesn't suddenly make them able to ride a bike.

[ToasterMan]

SE might want to start by making GLD actually be able to hold threat. No not PLD. GLD.

This is one of the most egotistical and condescendingly written posts I've read on this forum..

Yeah this is the reason I've stopped raiding with pugs. I've seen much worse than this (That particular post wasn't that bad IMO). Get ready for that post were they start acting like victims because this guy wasn't perfect right out of the gate. That's always entertaining

[Venjenz]

Let's say a new player enters a dungeon and everyone is synced down and not giving a rats patooty if the Tank can keep enmity, going full DPS zerg and focusing down separate enemies instead of one, and so the Tank gets confused and feeling pressured cause they are trying hard and testing things in real time with other players and nothing works.

They won't even have enough time to adequately think about more optimal ways due to the constant pressure and their gear being far lower than a level synced player. They also won't have time to build enmity because they'll lack provoke starting out and DPS or the Healer will be pulling mobs sometimes before they can get the first lick in which is terrible as a learning experience for a new player.

This happens to me about 1 in 3 times I hit the "join" button in DF. And it can be terrible, and frsutrating, and annoying, and we have a thread already for why people don't want to tank. But...

...if you take the tank job and you queue for it with DF pugs, then you are accepting certain expectations by default. That's how this game works. In other games, it might be some other role or class (ask a former EQ1 enchanter how I know this), but every MMO places a higher responsibility on certain folks than it does others, and while we should all attempt to have a heart with newbies like me learning the game, it is still up to us newbies to learn the game, take advice, and git gud.

And one note about "don't have Provoke" excuses - when Sastasha or Tam Tara pops for me in roulette, I do lose a bunch of buttons...BUT SO DOES EVERYONE ELSE. That said, all three tank classes have their AE enmity generator and ranged enmity puller by level 15. Even if all you ever get in DF roulette is Sastasha, you always have Flash/Overpower/Unleash and Shield Lob/Tomahawk/Unmend. You never ever have to tank without an AE enmity tool and ranged enmity puller. So even in the lowest level dungeon in the game, you have tools for tanking. Some runs will go well, some will go bad, but you cannot hide behind "but we don't have Provoke!" Learn the buttons you do have, use them and if someone explains how to use them because it appears that you do not know, then simply LISTEN.

I am a newbie tank. It is frustrating a lot of the time, and I am sympathetic to a point, but if you have made it past the fist clam in Sastasha and are still lost of how Flash (or Overpower) works, then you are trying to remain ignorant. Sorry, but it's simply too basic to make excuses for.

[dragonseth07]

This is one of the most egotistical and condescendingly written posts I've read on this forum. There are far more variables than what you are listing. Hell, you don't even mention if this is that persons first MMORPG, and you are so critical over the fact if they miss a tool tip. "Le gasp! They didn't read the tool tip? What inferior intellect they must have! Let's justify laughing at this novice player!".

Maybe you pressed buttons at random in your first MMO, but I would hazard to guess that most players are concerned with things like how to actually play, and are willing to do things like read tooltips.

I remember my first years of gaming. It's not like we were all hopeless back in the day.

Remember Gen I Pokemon? Where even the youngest could figure out to use water moves on the fire type?

[ToasterMan]

Remember Gen I Pokemon? Where even the youngest could figure out to use water moves on the fire type?

That's a game with a completely different kind of game play. That's a turn based RPG while this games combat is real time. And pokemon is a much easier game than this is

[Hierro]

And pokemon is a much easier game than this is

Are you a VGC champ? How about a 1800+ rating player? no? of course not cause pokemon's actually hard.

[dragonseth07]

That's a game with a completely different kind of game play. That's a turn based RPG while this games combat is real time. And pokemon is a much easier game than this is

My point is that there is a level of comprehension and self-sufficiency that one can and should expect from even brand new players.