Forcing players to pay to keep housing is unfair.

[ReplicaX]

More so: I can't speak for EQ because I didn't stay in that game for long but Final Fantasy XI which was released back in 2003 had mog house and upon picking your nation you had the mog house right away.

The only thing that remotely resembles XI's MogHouse in XIV would be an apartment or private room within a FC House.

The reason why it is not comparable at all is exactly what you failed to mention.

In XI, a Moghouse was part of the player's inventory system of the game, which is why everyone got one for free. This isn't the case with XIV having retainers.

[Cylla]

snip

And what you fail to realize is that no matter how the system went or was done, it was still done right. No kidding XIV not XI, no kidding that the two are nothing alike. Different in ever way. Now that we got that out or our systems.... can we maybe stop and see the real problem? AION, WoW, XI, EQ, Wildstar - all these games (and probably more) have housing of some sorts (WoW was more a garrison then housing but still housing imo). All these systems had housing for every player, it wasn't limited like XIV. As Stitches said, EQ had a rent system. WoW you had to pay gold to rank up your garrison, the last rank being 5,000 gold iirc. AION if I remember right (haven't played in years) was a auction system, which had housing or apartments. I can't speak for Wildstar, never played it, and of course XI we know. But what do these games have that XIV doesn't? Enough housing to fill all players who wanted one. Be it instance, inventory system, etc.

I don't care how it was done, it was done and as PocketVolcano said above, XIV is stuck in a stone age when it shouldn't even be. This game came out four years ago, it should be up to par with the rest of the gaming world but reality is reality, it behind in content like this.

[StouterTaru]

You've made this claim already before, and I already pointed out earlier in this thread that it is objectively false. I am a homeowner and I approve of the demo timer.

I'm also a homeowner, and I also approve of the demo timer. In fact, five months before they announced housing demolitions, I was a homeowner, and said:

They just need to weed out the unsubs. If their subscription expires or is cancelled, give them 35 days to resub before sending their crap to the calamity salvager.

[Aylis]

I can't speak for Wildstar, never played it

Wildstar is more or less get to level 15, talk to the Protostar guy in your factions home city. That's it...you have your plot in the sky to build as you see fit. The devs even went as far as to encourage players that wanted more out of housing to level alts for another plot(s). Since alts are automatically account bound neighbors. Players could set up their alt houses and take advantage of whatever feature they wanted to on their mains. All plots are there forever. No rent, no anything extra to get to your plot (though you will have to pay for normal FABkit reactivations). Log in daily or log in a year from now. Click your "teleport to house" ability and it will all be there as you left it.

*EDIT*

But what do these games have that XIV doesn't? Enough housing to fill all players who wanted one. Be it instance, inventory system, etc.

I'll add in too, devs with enough foresight to be able to see far enough to know that all players will want housing, especially when you start adding key game related features to them (gardening, chocobo coloring and training, airships, etc) and want them without being at the mercy of another player who may decide one day to take it all away, and that someday those players may need or have to take a break from the game. Be it money reasons, computer issues or just boredom from pre-patch lulls. That maybe, just maybe its a bad idea to design systems that could potentially make a possible returning player mad enough to be the linch pin in their choice to not want to come back and shower the company again with money along side telling all their friends to avoid so-and-so game like the plague.

[Vidu]

Now that we got that out or our systems.... can we maybe stop and see the real problem?

I'm really sorry if I'm coming off rude or angry right now but I have to get something out of my system now - which is: I'm so sick of hearing people complain about the housing system. Could it be done better? Sure. Did they made mistakes? Certainly. Do we need to tell the devs that by making a new thread on this topic every other day? Really not. I bet they're well aware of the problem - and they're trying to adress it with introducing apartments for example.
If housing is SO important to you... say thanks to Cylla here who mentioned a whole list of games that may or may not are doing it better. (Btw - I've never played WoW but I remember reading an article about one of the expansion that mention that they would be getting housing now... after... I dont know how many years)

I'm not saying that we should voice our concerns and complains about the game - but when it comes to housing thats really just wasting time and words. The devs choose to have the system this way to create lively neighbourhoods and it would have worked perfectly fine if people wouldnt have started crying that they wanted a house without being part of an FC. So in my book opening up houses to indivual players was the real mistake here.
That and not taking inflation into account when its coming to prices - my personal fix to the housing crisis is to push those prices. Currently a casual-non-crafting person can easly get the 4 millions that are required for a small house, making it "Just something else in the game they can have" - I literrally know a few people who bought houses and when I asked why their answer was "Because I could" (I visisted some of them and they look aweful... just a bunch of furniture they picked up somewhere stuffed into corners, pains me each time to see that...)
Houses were supposed to be something an FC could work on together and with the development in the market thats just not the case anymore - my FC (basically me and a friend...) bought a medium house for 18 million gil 2 or 3 months after they introduced housing. We were both 2.0 mastercrafters at that point, crafting good old 1- and 2-star items nonstop - average price was like 30k for one 1-star-item. It took us about 2 months to get the 18 millions. Today I can sell around 12 items and make those 18 millions. So I say one of the main problems with the whole housing situation is that it appears as if everyone can and should be able to buy a house when that was never the idea behing it.
The devs choose the nice neighbourhoods over everyone having a house, but failed pretty bad at getting that message out afterwards...

Personally I feel that prices have to be MUCH higher to make housing something that you actively choose to do, that you work towards - and not just something you get but never really touch because its just another thing you can do. And currently I feel thats often the case with people complaining about losing their home - specially each time I read stories in which people actually had an active sub, maybe even teleported to their house but couldnt bother to step in...

[PocketVolcano]

/post

You can also change your themes, like have a dying star in the background or the Northern Light appear, and all you do is pay gold in the housing store. Your housing items are kept in a separate housing inventory, you can choose a house style from a race other than your own, and from a different faction too! Hell, you can even buy slates of metal for 10 copper each, expand them three times their normal size, and build your entire house from scratch!

FFXIV's housing system is so dated and shackles you down to not allow for much creative freedom.



That's a floating eye in the back, and the hill was made from many of the same rocks, blown up, shrunk, and turned on all axis points. This kind of freedom is absent from FFXIV, which it should not be in the Year of Our Trump 2017.

[Aylis]

You can also change your themes, like have a dying star in the background or the Northern Light appear, and all you do is pay gold in the housing store. Your housing items are kept in a separate housing inventory, you can choose a house style from a race other than your own, and from a different faction too! Hell, you can even buy slates of metal for 10 copper each, expand them three times their normal size, and build your entire house from scratch!

FFXIV's housing system is so dated and shackles you down to not allow for much creative freedom.

Yep! Skybox, ground, the kind of race house you wanted, walls, floors, ceilings, trims, the music could even be changed outside and inside the house, even different tracks playing depending on the floor or staircase. My house theme was "science gone wrong" I used the Falling Into The Sun skybox. I had the Eldan music and ambient's playing inside. Outside umm..I used The DJ is in The House. it wasn't going to be forever, I just liked the song while building. It made for interesting expressions from other visiting players lol...WERE ALL GOING TO DIE BUT YAAAAAAAY PARTY!!!!!

[ReplicaX]

snip

Yes, the core was done correctly for the early era of XI and its heavy base inventory system until limitations came into play to expand the system. Why MogGarden was a separate addition and sadly too late of a release. In XIV inventory is simpler, you can toss retainer bells everywhere as there is no "separated housing inventory" to waste resources on.

We are not in disagreement, your example of XI just lacked details for non-XI players IMO. What XI did correctly, it allowed individuals not only personalized space, but also other avenues like gardening without restricting the individual based on housing availability. You cannot cross-breed garden in apartments and unless you have access /w a FC House you are screwed.

[PocketVolcano]

Yep! Skybox, ground, the kind of race house you wanted, walls, floors, ceilings, trims, the music could even be changed outside and inside the house, even different tracks playing depending on the floor or staircase. My house theme was "science gone wrong" I used the Falling Into The Sun skybox.

As a Draken, I felt War was the best theme for outside my house with a complete 180 once you stepped through the door, I turned it into an Alice in Wonderland theme buying a bunch of mushrooms cheap and making them several different sizes. I also custom made a balcony outside and a "third" floor inside by stacking bookcases!

[Aylis]

As a Draken, I felt War was the best theme for outside my house with a complete 180 once you stepped through the door, I turned it into an Alice in Wonderland theme buying a bunch of mushrooms cheap and making them several different sizes. I also custom made a balcony outside and a "third" floor inside by stacking bookcases!

Yeppp!!! I honestly can't think of another MMO that had such creative flair turned loose when it came to housing as Wildstar. I was a human Engi though I might have been part Chua lol, so I went with a destructive out of control science experiment gone reallllly bad theme. My Aurin alt was the happy sunny EVEN THE WALLS HERE WILL HUG AND CUDDLE YOU TO DEATH LIKE A SQUISHY PLUSHY theme ^.^