Until SE makes male and female glamours equal...

[Synrin]

Honestly, this thread has been pretty terrible for discussion, and it's mostly that troll's fault. Perhaps I'm just being naive, but I think the problem is that reasonable people who have these opinions and could actually contribute to a discussion* are afraid to actually say anything.

*I will confess that, based on the responses in this thread, I don't think a "discussion" is what would actually occur if those people were to voice their opinions. But the truth is, no one has unfairly demonized anyone that I've seen in this thread. The one guy being demonized absolutely deserves it. So I hold out hope.

First I would like to adress that this thread is speaking up for equality. Not only making now-female items available for male charters, but also the other way around. You want Aymeric's hairstyle or Snow's pants? You (hopefully) got it, girl!

What I also liked seeing is people explaining that this isn't about cross-dressing or trying to look 'gay', feminine or ridiculous in any way. It has to do with style, fashion of a sort. Some items we already have (Midan coat of casting/healing, the suit-like nature of the recent Scripture gear, the whole caster Hailstorm set) are in no way any better in emphasising the gender than some already locked items (like the new Y'shtola's healing coat or Aymeric's attire, for example). If the Hailstorm set passes as gender-neutral then the Aymeric's heavy armour has to pass as well. Same with certain hairstyles.

[Serilda]

Speaking for myself I am more than happy to debate in a measured tone when the starting argument isn't presented as 'you're a bunch of sick freaks who deserve less stuff than me' or its horrible and irrelevant cousin 'people who had nothing to do with this thread in the first place are a bunch of sick freaks'. I think quite a few of the anti-unlock crew have presented very good arguments over the course of the multi-thread history of this campaign. I don't think they're right to think that their right to certain aesthetics trumps my right to get the same amount of content for the same subscription, but they have articulated them perfectly well and actually responded to feedback. Nobody is ever going to agree with the way everyone else around them dresses.

In this thread, if we set aside the opinions which amount to 'I want to control how everyone else plays the game' for now and the desperate attempts to bring RL gender/sexuality/preference shaming into a discussion about harmless pixels, probably the best argument has been that S-E as a Japanese company is quite conservative, which is a rational conclusion to draw under the circumstances. I personally disagree with it because I feel the circumstances are inconsistent, but I'd be quite happy to debate it at length because it is relevant and the inconsistency with which the matter is treated within the game is a reasonable source of confusion for both sides. It is a very relevant angle for this thread in particular, because contributors are actively trying to provide examples of how S-E spends thousands and thousands of dollars going out of their way to model skirts, crop tops, jewel-encrusted tiaras and frills for their male characters (and has been doing so since long before the ongoing debate ever reared its head) yet digs its heels in over the most bizarre things. But there's no response to the counter to this criticism that I've seen yet other than to keep patronisingly explaining that Japan dislikes crossdressing. It never progresses further. Which is a shame, because I think highlighting the inherent contradictions helps everyone, but I guess it may just be that nobody has an explanation for the way this issue has been handled. I don't think that even S-E has an explanation.

I have over 1000 posts on this forum now and the vast majority are about this one glamour problem. I'm very, very tired of making the same arguments and seeing the same strawman posts going around and around when a lot of the problems people have with the core issue are emininently down to misunderstandings: people simply don't notice that female characters consistently received bonus glamours, people don't realise how many buff Highlander men are stuffed into skirts on a regular basis whether they like them or not, people mistakenly assume this is all about ERP, people don't appreciate the amount of 'fan service' already present in the game because they're so desensitised by the prevalence of the male gaze. Once those misunderstandings are cleared up I think most people are fine with the core request and realise that nobody is forcing them to stick bunny ears on their head. But repeating the same points we've made hundreds of times before was never the purpose of this particular thread at all; it's a gallery of how great our characters look dressed up whether they're feminine, masculine, cute or handsome. If people come in and ignore what we're trying to do to shout us down, that's on them.

I do feel that the people against glamour equality are a minority. That's not the same group as people against guys in skirts for any number of RL reasons - aesthetics, religion and upbringing are all understandable positions, but irrelevant here because the number of skirts which aren't already open to both genders is vanishingly small. That ship already sailed. I think the vast majority of people either want more glamours in principle, don't care (the biggest group by far) or don't have strong opinions on missing out on glamours because they already have the South Seas Talisman and a Coeurl thong; everything else is unimportant as they're already happy. It goes both ways because once this arbitrary application of gender restrictions is dropped, it paves the way for their weak 'fix' of locking all of the NPC cosplay outfits on Mog Station to finish. Everyone benefits in the long run from S-E thinking harder before they slap the gender lock on a new item.

[Serilda]

As a gay man, I did not find it very homophobic at all. He immaturely asked a question that not a single person here answered. As you can plainly see, he has gotten many upvotes. This suggests to me that enough people don't view him as a troll, and where others do solely because they disagree with him. I personally think he could have sparked up a potentially good discussion if he had phrased a lot of it much much more appropriately than they did.

For what it's worth, I tried on a previous troll intrusion by the same guy which someone less unreasonable latched onto. Before it became readily apparent that the original poster was just trying to bait and didn't care about the reasons, that is. They're just my own opinions, but I would be happy to continue discussing that angle if other people are still curious as there may well be a lot more to it.

This isn't just female clothes on a male, this is 'lewd' clothes on a male.

It's also just one guy's taste, and those are all male-only items which already exist in the game. He's drawn it in a very sexualised style and I understand if that makes you uncomfortable (not in a condescending way; you're perfectly entitled to those feelings as they're personal things), but the clothes themselves in-game are no more or less lewd than any other item. Maid outfits (and indeed bunny outfits) are also very fertile ground for lewd imagery, but it's down to the artist or photographer to put that spin on it and outside of S-E's direct control.

[Serilda]

New page, new opportunities. Let's try to steer this thread in a less negative direction with more pictures of characters dressing up and having fun again.

[SpiritMuse]

You look positively dashing. The color compliments your coloring amazingly well, too! XD It's kinda cute how grumpy she looks in the Songbird outfit, though.

Well thank you! Haha, she does look a bit grumpy, doesn't she? But I do so enjoy having a big green hulking lady running around in a frilly pink dress. It's surprisingly hard to find a color that looks good with green skin lol.

Your witchy dress is pretty neat too. I had a witch glamour on my male dusky back with Halloween. I think I may have used one of the level 59 dungeon drop skirts, or maybe just the plain long skirt like you.

[Lukha]

Friendly reminder that this was never intended to be a debate thread anyway, but rather a fun and civil way to show how we feel about gender-locking. If you'd like to express your displeasure constructively, why not make a rival screenshot thread with your characters dressed as girly girls and manly men?

First I would like to adress that this thread is speaking up for equality. Not only making now-female items available for male charters, but also the other way around. You want Aymeric's hairstyle or Snow's pants? You (hopefully) got it, girl!

Yes, this is exactly what I was going for with this thread. Everyone should at the very least have the same number of options available to them, but in a perfect world I would be able to wear a Guardian Corps uniform just like Lightning and all her male coworkers, and the ladies could emulate Snow's beach bum style to their heart's content. I wouldn't mind seeing the FFXIII hairstyles unlocked, either (and a version of Snow's without the bandana would be amazing).

[...]

Oooh, that does look cute on you. Which hands and feet are those? I don't recognize them.
Were you actually aiming for a 'pink Sydney Losstarot' look, or was that just a happy accident?

It's gonna be another lazy night for me since I had a final today and I'm pretty beat. Here's a little something for any furries in the audience; the Moogle Attire actually has quite the figure.

[Synrin]

Yes, this is exactly what I was going for with this thread. Everyone should at the very least have the same number of options available to them, but in a perfect world I would be able to wear a Guardian Corps uniform just like Lightning and all her male coworkers, and the ladies could emulate Snow's beach bum style to their heart's content. I wouldn't mind seeing the FFXIII hairstyles unlocked, either (and a version of Snow's without the bandana would be amazing).

Straight to the point. Saw a couple of female Strifes just yesterday, with the soldier outfit and all. I want to cosplay in that way too! :C

[Serilda]

Moogletastic!

Oooh, that does look cute on you. Which hands and feet are those? I don't recognize them.
Were you actually aiming for a 'pink Sydney Losstarot' look, or was that just a happy accident?

Complete accident (the clothes are actually dyed silver and purple too, it's just the bright light of Mist washing them out). I used the ilvl 100 BLM PVP gloves and boots this time, which are very similar to the ilvl 110 versions. Sorry for the repeated use of BLM-only items but they get some of the best glamours!

Today's picture is to highlight the Evenstar Booties (though this is actually the reworked Serpentskin version as I prefer the colour), some of the most macho footwear in the game, along with a set of male-only tights (the model is completely different for female characters). I never wear anything this shiny and skintight normally, but the pattern on them is fun and they help show off the boots. Glamour lockouts make no sense to me.

[Kinazu]

It took me quite a while but I finally found a pretty adorable outfit for my Monk!

[SpiritMuse]

Best (wo?)Man's outfit:






And the accompanying Bridesmaid's dress (with bunny ears):