Anyone else wish RDM was a PURE support class?

[Jerbob]

To me, support has never fit the job's aesthetic. A guy in medium armor with a sword in hand that is able to cast spells is not what you picture when you think of support.

Definitely agree that RDM as a support job doesn't fit. All I was trying to say is that, given two options that both completely don't fit (XIV's RDM being a nuker vs. a hypothetical XIV RDM support job), I'd prefer the doesn't-fit Support to the doesn't-fit Nuker, just for gameplay reasons. Of course the best solution by a mile is to have neither, but sadly SE seem to be intent on ignoring that.

It's not fun to sit around with a gut feeling that they've messed up but you're not going to find out for real until June.

I know, it's horrible isn't it.

Considering how Balance is seen as OP because of what it does to DPS output, I think if anything it proves that you can't have a buff oriented class because it becomes a mainstay for progression, and that trickles down to the people doing Sastasha for the first time. I'm sure your resident DRG/MNK/SAM/BLM would hate to get benched in favor of whatever buffbot ends up getting implemented. And that's not taking into account the potential for drama (see: princess BRDs and princess RDMs in FFXI).

I think part of the problem here is that AST is primarily a healer with added skills on top. You can choose the healer that boosts damage output, or the one that doesn't - there's a clear optimal choice. Replacing a damage dealing job with a support job is a different matter - you can choose the job that deals damage, or the job that boosts it. The end result is still just damage.

I know that's oversimplifying to an extent, but I think the principle is sound.

I agree that there's a big question regarding whether SE are capable of balancing a support job so that it "counts" as one DD job regardless of the context it's in. There are certainly ways of limiting the amount of "buffs per second" a job is capable of throwing out, but it might take some creativity, and I'm not sure SE are willing to be creative at this point. If they can balance support jobs to be roughly equivalent to another DD job, though, then there won't be any demand for support - it'll be another playstyle, not another role.

[Xx-ReiN-xX]

Then we will get thread like "Is it my job to DPS as a support class?"

[ADVSS]

Then we will get thread like "Is it my job to DPS as a support class?"

BWAHAHAHA very true

[Jerbob]

Then we will get thread like "Is it my job to DPS as a support class?"

Well, I'm coming from the angle that hypothetical pure support classes would not have DD skills at all, save whatever gimmick lets them get through content solo. So the answer to that would be no, because they can't!

[ADVSS]

Well, I'm coming from the angle that hypothetical pure support classes would not have DD skills at all, save whatever gimmick lets them get through content solo. So the answer to that would be no, because they can't!

i could see them testing a third arcanist stem c;ass. with just those few dots, but theres absolutely no way the game would allow a job to not be able to damage, hell we gotta sell em jump potions cause people might not clear content, or want to.

[Xx-ReiN-xX]

Well, I'm coming from the angle that hypothetical pure support classes would not have DD skills at all, save whatever gimmick lets them get through content solo. So the answer to that would be no, because they can't!

Healers have those DPS gimmick for solo content. But players figured out you dont need to 100% heal your group in most content. So they oped to DPS when there's oppoturnity. Same things will happen to support class.

[Jerbob]

i could see them testing a third arcanist stem c;ass. with just those few dots, but theres absolutely no way the game would allow a job to not be able to damage, hell we gotta sell em jump potions cause people might not clear content, or want to.

Healers have those DPS gimmick for solo content. But players figured out you dont need to 100% heal your group in most content. So they oped to DPS when there's oppoturnity. Same things will happen to support class.

I think it's possible to avoid this - there's just got to be some creativity involved.

To use my example from earlier: Imagine a pure support class, no direct damaging actions, but they have a weak pet. Something really pathetic in terms of damage potential. You also have a certain number of support spells you can cast in a given timeframe - there's a resource limitation of some kind.

Solo scenario: Summon up the pet, throw all your buffs at it. Your pet is still feeble, but juiced up on buffs it's perfectly good enough to get you through your solo quests and missions. You're not actually using any direct damage yourself.

Group scenario: You've still got your pet pewpewing away at something, but given the choice between putting Haste on your pet or Haste on your DD friend, the pet isn't an inviting choice. Still full-time supporting, just your selected target has changed. No-one can tell you to DD more, because there's literally nothing you can do - you don't have any actions permitting it, and your "buffs per second" are resource-limited.

I'm sure there are other solutions too - and remember, support isn't like healing, where you only need so much. Unless the support job is poorly designed, there's always room in a fight for it to help your DDs to hit harder or faster.

[basketofseals]

Ehh. You'd be surprised. Although Balance is the biggest problem, the other cards still bring a utility White Mage simply cannot match. They have a single niche: raw healing. It doesn't work because both Astro and Scholar can heal through all content without skipping a beat while providing significantly better utility.

But ASTs were preferably put to the side before Balance's super buff. What makes now different? I was under the impression that WHM's healer heavy toolkit simply allowed them to deal more damage than AST since non-balance cards are unreliable garbage.

[Arutan]

Why would RDM be support?
RDM = white magic + black magic + sword combat
Where do you see support here

[Vexander]

Why would RDM be support?
RDM = white magic + black magic + sword combat
Where do you see support here

Probably somewhere between White Magic + Black Magic. You know, Protection, Stoneskin, Apocatastasis, etc...