Anyone else wish RDM was a PURE support class?

[ADVSS]

as stated before my expectations arent too high, the video shows just about what id expectn all they really need to do is give it a respectable heal, maybe raise, maybe a refresh you can toss on the healerm and itd be probably as close as youd get from a non dedicated/forced to be healer. its very possible at this point that physik is going to go bye bye for blm, so i hope the heal is decent if they do get one

Regardless of the job if SE were to add a pure support class I see it as a endgame class only and would only unlock after you reach lvl cap. Let's say you beat stormblood story and are currently at lvl 70, you the player would gain access to the support class. This would bypass the need to lvl up a pure support class with limited dps skills and remain a endgame only class.

What do you all think?

Im not entirely sure if that would happen. However this cross role system might shift things more to role to allow a support to maybe happen. For instance most dps have some raid support, however if they remove that from them(making it easier to choose say a monk for instance for raid compositions) they would have some skill set to implement a supporter type. Currently though, if they dont do this and keep dps as is, it would be difficult

[Lambdafish]

The thing is, pure support wouldn't really work in this game due to a big focus on a DPS meta, and I am of the firm belief that RDM will bring a heavy support toolkit much like BRD and MCH.

I do also agree with Yoshi Ps stance, and what they did with the job:

Yoshi: So for the Red Mage, and when we were talking about how will we make Red Mage fit into the realm of [FFXIV], there was actually a very heated debate about what role it should be.

Of course, there’s the element of using the rapier to do close range attacks, there’s also the element of magic, and that’s more of a ranged thing. There were discussion about do we have to start considering hybrid jobs, or do we just go the other way and make it a healer. Yoshida-san felt that no matter which route they took, it might differ from what players imagined a Red Mage would be.

http://twinfinite.net/2017/03/ffxiv-...view-pax-east/

[Kaethra]

Holy trinity reigns supreme until you allow more than 5 man groups. Here's why:

Tank-Healer-DPS-DPS has two DPS, tank DPS, and healer DPS.

If you did Tank-Healer-DPS-Support. The Support has to buff himself, the other DPS, the Healer, and the Tank enough to justify that lost full DPS. Sounds simple. But what happens in a raid with Tank-Healer-Healer-DPS-DPS-DPS-DPS-DPS? The amount he buffs that by will go up multiplicatively.

In EQ/EQ2, they DO have support roles. But they utilize a 6 man group. Tank-Healer-Support-x-x-x. I say X because they have hybrids along with DPS. The size of the group and ways support do their role allows them to double up on support. For example a bard and enchanter will both buff each other to DPS level Damage capability.

This is why BRD/MCH buffs and debuffs are somewhat limited. Its to allow for 2x BRD or 2x MCH, or BRD and MCH groups to work. Say a RDM did entirely support. Now imagine if 2x RDM would buff each other (through unique buffs) to do enough buffs to allow them BLM/SMN damage. Now place two RDM in a raid with 2 BLM and a SMN and watch the crazy output.

To put it shortly, group size of 4 doesn't mesh well unless its the only group size available.

Lets explore it a bit further. Lets just say its a consequence we'll just account for. Just up the boss HP on 8-24 man content. Yeah... what happens when you don't get that RDM in the queue for a trial roulette? That consequence we just accounted for just shot us in the foot. We could go further and force a support to show up in each queue to ensure its always there. Well.. thats another way to screw with queue times.

No.. the best balance is to have a support do its role in a way that it always works whether its there or not. And maybe slightly better (by 5-10%) there then not to encourage but not require flexibility in classes.

What I'd like to see is an 8 man group be the standard for dungeons. This would allow support to thrive as a new role. As well as quicken DPS queues at the same time. Killing two birds with one stone.

[Kogasan]

What I wish is what I was hoping rdm would be a melee caster. I think we could really use one of those in this game.

[Altena]

As others said, they wouldn't work in this game really.

To begin with, all classes need some solo capability in order to progress through story content etc. So there can never really be a full on support-only class.
In addition to this, you can give classes supportive skills but if they were to develop something that is solely focused on supporting.. What do you do when there is nothing to support?

I don't mean to bring this topic up but it becomes a bit like the healer DPS argument..
When everyone's health is topped off and there is nothing to heal, what do they do? Just stand there?

Same situation with a support class.. When there is no supporting to be done, what do you do? Stand there and tip your hat?

I wouldn't mind seeing another supportive orientated healer though.. AST was a good start with the card system. I could see how a RDM could have been a healer/support similar to AST, however I am a lot more happy that casters are getting some love as SMN and BLM have only been the two casters in the game since 2.0.. RDM seems to me like one of the better options for a caster that would mix it up a bit over and above what we already have.

So no, I am happier with their choice to make it a Caster DPS.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

FFXIV will never have a pure support job because people wouldn't take them. A one dimensional focus is why Paladin and White Mage suffer right now.

[Kaethra]

FFXIV will never have a pure support job because people wouldn't take them. A one dimensional focus is why Paladin and White Mage suffer right now.

That's not entirely true. Bards and Enchanters in both EQ's prove that singular focus on support roles is extremely desirable. But we'd need to ditch the 4man group model. Which I support. 8 man group as the base would fix the DPS queues across all datacenters.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

That's not entirely true. Bards and Enchanters in both EQ's prove that singular focus on support roles is extremely desirable. But we'd need to ditch the 4man group model. Which I support. 8 man group as the base would fix the DPS queues across all datacenters.

Key word: Everquest

FFXIV is not designed to have pure support roles. The whole healer DPS meta exists because of how damage focused this game is. Increasing the role requirements doesn't change anything. Praetorium and Castrum have 8 people. And what happens? Speed runs since it's a cakewalk. Even the 24 man raids slot five DPS because their one attempt at double tanks (Labyrinths) severely hindered queue times and gave the off tank nothing to do.

[Zojha]

The whole healer DPS meta exists because of how damage focused this game is.

Almost every game is like that >_> Some just hide it better than others. The simplicity of FFXIV doesn't leave much cover.

Anywhoo - A pure support IS possible. You can put it in the DPS slot and then balance it in such a way that the total damage contribution via buffs/debuffs is equivalent to any other DPS. Math allows for such.

The issues however are the following:
- You need to make assumptions about the other team members that may or may not be true (skill level, healer DPSing etc) when balancing the skills, causing them to be better or worse than intended if the team is better/worse than assumed. This is the big hurdle.
- You need to make the support skills scale with gear to make it fit with the progression system of the game
- You need to account for group size, as group buffs and debuffs scale with group size

I have doubts that it would be worth the effort. When I look at Monk, they seem to have trouble just balancing regular support abilities against each other, so... yeah. If they made a support job, it'd probably turn out a mess one way or the other.

[basketofseals]

FFXIV will never have a pure support job because people wouldn't take them. A one dimensional focus is why Paladin and White Mage suffer right now.

That really isn't the problem with those jobs. That issue is nothing except those two do less damage than their counterparts. If balance got removed, I'd bet you see people drop AST like a hot potato.