As a healer, is it my job to DPS? A new perspective.

[Feyona]

You are genuinely ignoring things people say, and not acknowledging them...only sometime out of context in your own little bubble that only benefits your side.Your behavior can be seen as trolling, i am not even joking.I seen other people get banned for less in various forums than what you done.

While you say that I take things out of context so do many posts as well. You cannot answer everything for word limit. You accuse me of ignoring what you say though because I dont mention it? iI know and everyone knows the meta here, it doesnt help to repeat it. I agree several times its optimal or 'best' way. but you could say some are in a bubble if they expect or think everyone can play like that. You also cant deny that people would just like to play casual and enjoy the game. If I can accept that you like to do things the best way,why cant you accept that others want to just enjoy themselves? Doesnt your argument work both ways? Actually you know I still think alot of this is due to being underconfident with cleric. Cant help thinking that sorry. If I could at least ask for one thing would be a different mechanic. With that cant help feeling it potentially can cause wipes, and I apolgise for feeling that way or having that opinion

[Awful]

That is really amazing. I dont kow how you manage that . Really its Wow

It's easy when you have the perfect comp, knowledgeable healers and tanks that contribute to the groups overall dps. The healers (specially xero) did more dps than pugs pre echo, well maybe not more but it's silly that the striking dummy boss can be cheesed very easily.

I haven't been on in 2 weeks due to irl stuff so I haven't touched creator savage with echo but it'll be super friggen faceroll with my static.

[Judge_Xero]

This looks like pretty average dps for a smn.... SCH?!?! HOLY CRAP! LOL nice job! But that group contribution too, wow, it probably helped tremendously that the group can kill it in under 3 minutes. Means less time you have to do mechanics and more uptime for dps. I need to strive for this.

Exactly. Our goal was to skip the Faust so we could avoid that mess of moving him around and getting that 2nd Acid Rain. Honestly I can't praise the players in my group enough for how much effort they put out on top of just having a good time with things.

As silly as it may seem, setting our Speed Run goal was just as enjoyable as doing the first clear of A9S.

It's easy when you have the perfect comp, knowledgeable healers and tanks that contribute to the groups overall dps. The healers (specially xero) did more dps than pugs pre echo, well maybe not more but it's silly that the striking dummy boss can be cheesed very easily.

I haven't been on in 2 weeks due to irl stuff so I haven't touched creator savage with echo but it'll be super friggen faceroll with my static.

It's unbelievable what a group can do when everyone is on the same page. I'm sure you'll enjoy it with Echo too. It opens up new goal windows and makes you feel like a Super Hero of Light!!!

[Sebazy]

And there I was feeling happy about getting up to 60% dps whilst nigh solo healing A12s =(

Really nice work, striking dummy boss or no, it still hits pretty hard and I suspect it took a good bit of optimising to get both healers dpsing that hard for that long. Defo makes me a bit sad that my group doesn't want to do some speed runs as well =(

[Lambdafish]

You cannot answer everything for word limit.

There is no word limit if you go back and edit your post (the more you know )

If I can accept that you like to do things the best way,why cant you accept that others want to just enjoy themselves? Doesnt your argument work both ways?

It does in most scenarios (as clearly defined many times), but definately not savage raiding content. This is a piece of content where you absolutely cannot be selfish, and must not hold onto your predetermined "enjoyment". You are there to synergise with 7 other people and do the dance right to clear content. If the group has a predetermined way of doing the fight, you adapt, if they say they want cleric, you use cleric. If you don't like that, find another group, it is that simple.

YOU CANNOT FORCE PERSONAL IDEALS ONTO A SAVAGE RAIDING GROUP THAT NO ONE ELSE AGREES WITH. It doesn't matter what they are, that is the cold hard truth of savage raiding, no matter what MMO you are part of, hell no matter what group role you are part of in life. I have had discomforts about phases as a tank, but I go away, research what the party has told me to research, liasoned with the other tank and worked out a strategy that will help the group as a whole beat the fight. Nowhere can I bring my personal preferences into it, I can't push the burden onto someone else because of the way I play.

Like I said before, you are a perfectly fine healer but your savage raid attitude needs to be more accepting. I can imagine you would have an awful time pugging difficult content with that attitude, because it requires a lot of adapting to suit others.

Edit: Also, before you say that I should be more accepting (because this will be your main counter point as irrelevant as it is), I honestly would be accepting of your playstyle within my own static, I've said before that healer DPS doesn't matter until you have seen enrage, but that isn't the point of discussion, the point is that your views of enjoyment don't matter, nor do mine, as long as they conflict with the interests of the group. You must adapt to synergise with your party if you want to raid, that is the way that it is.

[bounddreamer]

I think a lot of the confusion and misunderstanding in this thread results in the switching back and forth between healer dps in casual content, to healer dps in savage content, and back again, and mixing the two. Especially since Feyona brought in her personal experience with learning savage content with a casual group. And there's been a lot of assumptions and more confusion stemming from that.

After a ton of back and forth I think, at last, I get where Feyona is coming from. A lot of people keep coming back in to stir the pot, though.

I think all of us can agree a healer shouldn't be required to dps if they're not comfortable. There's a variety of situations where this can happen: duty finder, party finders where you don't know the other healer or they're just not up for main healing, dungeons where you're new or returning, etc. And savage when someone is learning the fight and new to a group and maybe hasn't learned how best to synergize with their co-healer as well.

That doesn't mean there is no room for improvement or that a person is going to stay at that level in all situations.

When Dun Scaith first came out, I could never seem to fit in dps beyond dots in the opener. Now if I'm running with an FC co-healer, I can do more. When I ran Zurvan EX on my own in party finder, I only found one or two WHM who were good enough and geared enough to give me room to dps most of the fight, but when I ran it with my static I could do full dps on the opener then my static main healer and I split the dps and healing very evenly for the rest of the fight.

We should foster a supportive community, not a hostile one. Encourage dps but don't get mean about it if someone declines. Barring a few examples of people filling their time by dancing or jumping around in circles, most people are just doing their best.

I think we're all on the same page about this, we're just using different words and perspectives to frame our arguments.

[Lambdafish]

After a ton of back and forth I think, at last, I get where Feyona is coming from. A lot of people keep coming back in to stir the pot, though.

That is true, and I have seen her point, but there are still issues with her argument, such as the dismissal of the desires of her raid team, and the fact that she can't accept that being kicked was justified and nobody is at fault. She is very focused on the fact that cleric should be banned or changed because "elitist players kick people who aren't good enough" when in actual fact she was with a group that was looking for a healer beyond her skill level. It is a sad situation, that I wish could be discussed with less hostility and more listening

[Deliciou5]

That is true, and I have seen her point, but there are still issues with her argument, such as the dismissal of the desires of her raid team, and the fact that she can't accept that being kicked was justified and nobody is at fault. She is very focused on the fact that cleric should be banned or changed because "elitist players kick people who aren't good enough" when in actual fact she was with a group that was looking for a healer beyond her skill level. It is a sad situation, that I wish could be discussed with less hostility and more listening

I agree, if only she could take full advantage of your advice then there probably wouldn't be any hostility in this thread at all.Alas she cannot really address people properly and doesn't make a lot of sense, she also doesn't seem to read what you say to her a lot of the time, asking questions or trying to make points that has already been addressed a million times.I have been absent from the thread for a while, and after you read a bunch of pages of people being so nice and articulate and illustrating their points so well to her and going out of their way to explain things in the best possible terms over and over, it's bit hard to not to be a bit irritated on how she repeatedly acts like a stonewall and seems like she has not read most of what you said despite the effort and work put into some of these wonderful posts. Maybe you are all right, maybe the pot shouldn't have been stirred, it's a waste of time.

[Judge_Xero]

That is true, and I have seen her point, but there are still issues with her argument, such as the dismissal of the desires of her raid team, and the fact that she can't accept that being kicked was justified and nobody is at fault.

Great summary, it really sums up how I was feeling about the situation and why I went through such lengths to put light on that scenario (although you explain it much better than I could have).

I didn't want any future or current healers that could be reading this thread to feel like there was a ton of pressure to instantly be a Pro at doing healer DPS or get kicked, because that will simply cause an issue to push against the meta and limits the ability to adapt and become a better healer. (some will either quit the healer roll, or be too scared to attempt it for fear of failing initially)

[Feyona]

There is no word limit if you go back and edit your post (the more you know )



It does in most scenarios (as clearly defined many times), but definately not savage raiding content. This is a piece of content where you absolutely cannot be selfish, and must not hold onto your predetermined "enjoyment". You are there to synergise with 7 other people and do the dance right to clear content. If the group has a predetermined way of doing the fight, you adapt, if they say they want cleric, you use cleric. If you don't like that, find another group, it is that simple.

YOU CANNOT FORCE PERSONAL IDEALS ONTO A SAVAGE RAIDING GROUP THAT NO ONE ELSE AGREES WITH.

well what you say has no bearing on me because I am in a savage team and we are doing it so what is your point? You cant force yours on me either so why state it? Plus I dont or ever have dismissed the needs of my team, where does that idea come from anyway ? Sorry to efit here bu because that guy left the group as well because he didnt like their treatment of me doesnt that tell you something? If it was the case I hadnt tried which was proved I did if you can see that side of things about the reports rubbish or not I still attemted to do what they asked of me and some of you have already said trying is acceptable I just wasnt given the time to learn or given instruction so yes bound to be rubbish according to the meta