As a healer, is it my job to DPS? A new perspective.

[Feyona]

Personally, I'm in camp a until SE gets around to either b or c. I'd prefer c myself.

Im sorry that I have to respond here but why is this about 'work' or how much you think dps does compaired to healers. Dps have to dps because they choose dps. I agree healer dps is easier in dungeons, and it is totally different in savage because even if you know stance dancing its a big leap to do in savage. Saying that though, I work my ass off just healing in savage. I mean doesnt anyone enjoy dpsing? Its not a 'job' like its supposed to be enjoyable, they must enjoy dpsing or why play the game? On the other hand I chose healer and hate dpsing. i play healer cos thats what I enjoy. It really neednt be about how much someone does maybe just respect of each role. Just like the analogy of goal keeper. I may leave this game if Im forced to do something I dont enjoy at all. By the way I do accept your point about effort but Ive worjed hard just to be a healer too .

[Doluka]

I'm really mostly curious about what people who primarily play healing classes DO with all of that excess time just standing around. Unless you have a really crap group that warrants constant Cure/Physick/Benefic spamming, I just don't see how standing around literally waiting for something to happen is enjoyable. If the group is garbage, sure, heal the whole time because they're bad, should feel bad, and would lose without you doing that.

Nobody, or at least most people anyway, who are pro-healer DPSing in Duties (not just savage) has ever claimed that they need healers to DPS to win an encounter. They just want people who are there to be doing something to help move the instance along instead of dancing or jumping around the whole time.

[Lambdafish]

a new healer class wich does not dps, but has a lot of utility and party buffs to compensate for that. sadly, that's basically AST without cleric and better buffs, so i guess it won't happen xD
or an opposite scholar: a healer with a dpsing pet on auto pilot... yeah, i would like that...

This is a fine idea, but we have already seen it in practice: with PLD.

Paladin is designed to be the tank who's sole job is tanking, WAR is the DPS tank and PLD is the tanky tanky. In 3.0 they decided to give PLD a bit more identity on the support side and it fell flat,with players opting to go for the higher DPS options, and nobody wanted the low DPS option. PLDs problems don't stop at lack of DPS, but it's a fair comparison to show that tanks have to deal with a pro DPS argument too.

Would I like to see a healer with lots of utility? yes. Would it work in the current game design? not unless said utility was balance cards. The fact of the matter is that all buffs except damage have caps where if you pass that point the buff is useless, and having a healer designed around these non damage buffs would not be viable because people would find other ways to hit the cap and just take SCH and AST, as is seen in the tank meta.

[Feyona]

I agree with freyona. She seems to be the only healer main here. Sadly. The point of this thread was never up for discussion so why an admitted tank and a couple random some time healers had to go on for 115 pages is beyond me. A little about myself I have mained healers since I started over 2 years ago and to this day if I run up on someone acting like any of you outside freyona have been acting for 115 pages. I simply do not party with them. Because if I have to carry a group on my back by healing and dpsing I might as well lose the group and play solo.

Thank you for saying that, and Im sorry you will be immediately 'jumped on ' for it. Sadly all you will get is ' advice' on how you should 'improve yourself'. If you come here saying you love cleric you will get a much nicer response and even when you follow advice and do what others want and people look at your dps as healer its still criticized for not using shadow flare or bane enough. So you have to say ' I love cleric and love dpsing as healer' first then your performance and your personality wont be judged. My post limit is up but Wanzer below has just proved my point, and made herself seem very hyporcritical in the process They only want to hear 'I love dps' Im really also not sure what I was expected to say to lamdafish or wanzer. Ive read their posts and they offer advice with a snipe in between like digs about me wanting to be a victim or such like and then Im not supposed to respond to what they say and yet they say I dont read their posts so Im not sure really what they were after from me really tbh Im 'attacked' and then respond to those insults then Im called a 'victim' Its a double bind because no matter what I say to insults is going to be me being at the end of it and respond in the way any normal human beiing would by attempting to defend myself. Wanzer in particulary has decided to be quite derogatory and attack my personality for some reason only she knows. Im certainly not sure why . The only reason I can think of is that I didnt agree that I suck if I dont dps and must improve myself yet already said that I do and have. Tbh that last comment was really quite nasty and then they wonder why people are 'victims' of it.

[HoodRat]

They stand idle waiting for people to take damage and heal people who are already at full hp, and then claim they don't have time to dps. That's why I think people should use fflogs more, you can see exactly what's going on in an instance.

[Lambdafish]

They stand idle waiting for people to take damage and heal people who are already at full hp, and then claim they don't have time to dps. That's why I think people should use fflogs more, you can see exactly what's going on in an instance.

Not every "non-DPS" healer is like that, and we can unanimously agree that healers who idle are terrible. It is this kind of hostility and accusation that forms these threads, and I'd rather avoid attacking people and scaring off healers who are potentially not skilled enough, but are open to improvement.

My argument about attitude goes both ways (its a few pages back if you didn't read it) and toxicity stems from both ends of the spectrum. We are much better off educating than attacking, and as seen by several healers who lack confidence in their ability in recent pages, they appreciate the advice and we need to support them.

Three or four pages ago, with Lambdafish and your answers about him, I honestly thought it was the end of this thread, but you came back again with that weird "community is bad and harassing me" for no reason, and it started again...

Honestly, I have exhausted everything I could possibly say to Feyona, so that particular discussion did end for me because I'm not longer taking the bait, I'd recommend you don't engage either. You are right that she just wants validation, but in saying so just provokes the victim response over and over again, so the best course of action is to stop engaging. We tried, we really did, but this thread is far more productive if we address the concerns of people who are actually willing to listen, like Sebazy and CuteWhisper.

[Feyona]

I'm really mostly curious about what people who primarily play healing classes DO with all of that excess time just standing around. Unless you have a really crap group that warrants constant Cure/Physick/Benefic spamming, I just don't see how standing around literally waiting for something to happen is enjoyable. If the group is garbage, sure, heal the whole time because they're bad, should feel bad, and would lose without you doing that.

Nobody, or at least most people anyway, who are pro-healer DPSing in Duties (not just savage) has ever claimed that they need healers to DPS to win an encounter. They just want people who are there to be doing something to help move the instance along instead of dancing or jumping around the whole time.

Answer is simple go dps and enjoy yourself , let others do the same to enjoy what they like. Well talking for those that cant allow anyone else to have a choice that is. Just think of goal keeper that stands and wits for a ball, the role is different

[Wanzer]

Thank you for saying that, and Im sorry you will be immediately 'jumped on ' for it. Sadly all you will get is ' advice' on how you should 'improve yourself'. If you come here saying you love cleric you will get a much nicer response

Aaaww, you are right, people trying to be helpful is such an horrible thing, if only they only said "you are right, keep up the good work, you are great" and move on. :<

You just confirmed what I told you : you only want people who could validate your point, nothing more. You don't really care about everything else.
Three or four pages ago, with Lambdafish and your answers about him, I honestly thought it was the end of this thread, but you came back again with that weird "community is bad and harassing me" for no reason, and it started again...

If you come here saying you love cleric you will get a much nicer response

And this, my friend, is crap, and you know it. But it's here to serve your argument about being harassed, again. And again, it only proves that :
1 - You don't read the people's comments, because they don't go in your way anyway.
2 - You read but don't understand the people's comments.
3 - You need your daily cry to feel alive, and being a victim is the best way you found for it.

And whatever the good answer is, it's very sad to see you keep running in circle. :/
Among all the people giving advices about how to DPS as healer (or at least, how to improve yourself, and even taking account the lack of confidence), there isn't such wall than you here.

Edit :
Oh, and before you say i don't respect your stance, i do, the problem is you not being able to communicate without ignoring most of the comments, or taking sentences out of their context to make your point. And it's not how a debate works.

[Judge_Xero]

Incredibly humble and thoughtful reply.

Wow I think you are doing absolutely amazing. Your attitude is so great too I wouldn't even mind if you were only managed to do 10 DPS in a whole run.

Since I came back which was 3 days ago. I went into Dun Scaith and Alexanders to get gear and most of the time players including the other healer was very polite and helpful. When I explained that I recently got back and needed to learn again, the other healers would gladly help me anyway they could and I am slowly getting my confidence back and DPS a little bit more. Of course I did have mean people but it was mostly very friendly.

I understand what others are saying here. They are not against people like me which is new to mechanics or scared to screw up but healers who roll their fingers instead of being helpful to the team. For now until I am more comfortable, I do a Succor whenever it's down. I also don't plan to ever do extremes and/or savage because I personally know my limitation and I know I would just ruin their run.

Such a great attitude as well. No matter what you may run into mean people, I've been in dungeons where I am the top DPS as SCH while keeping everyone alive and had people complain that I shouldn't DPS. But it is always the exception and not the rule to meet these people. Just keep being awesome.


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For all you other aspiring Scholars out there, with the addition of Echo in Creator Savage it's a great time to practice stretching your DPS legs and build some synergy with your co-healer in anticipation for Stormblood.

They stand idle waiting for people to take damage and heal people who are already at full hp, and then claim they don't have time to dps. That's why I think people should use fflogs more, you can see exactly what's going on in an instance.

You are exactly right. It's such a useful tool for looking at how to improve a playstyle. I've read way too many logs and know exactly how a fight went down just by glancing over them.

IMO it actually helps reduce frustrations in a static. You can't always look at what everyone is doing in your group while progressing etc, but by being able to look at the logs you can say:

- Hey AST, if you keep up Aspected Benefic on the tank instead of Benefic spamming, the combined HPS of that and the SCH pet will open a 60 second window to DPS

A lot of healers don't put enough faith in their regens and the pet because they don't look into DDPS values of the tank from bosses and it's hard to gauge to that degree during the fight.

Look at A9S Refurbisher. ~ 1900 DDPS to the MT

i270 AST Benefic is 800 HPS. Fairy Embrace @ i270 1300 HPS - 2100 HPS combined. "Hey Co-Healer, let's see if we can keep the MT up with just Regens + Pet and I'll top them with Essential Dignity during tank busters and cleaves"

[HoodRat]

Not every "non-DPS" healer is like that, and we can unanimously agree that healers who idle are terrible. It is this kind of hostility and accusation that forms these threads, and I'd rather avoid attacking people and scaring off healers who are potentially not skilled enough, but are open to improvement.

My argument about attitude goes both ways (its a few pages back if you didn't read it) and toxicity stems from both ends of the spectrum. We are much better off educating than attacking, and as seen by several healers who lack confidence in their ability in recent pages, they appreciate the advice and we need to support them.

I'm not attacking anyone, I'm saying that fflogs is a good tool for education. However, yes all healers who do not dps either stand idle at times, waste time and effort healing people who don't need to be healed, or even both. I'm not implying that it's intentional, but it happens. Analyzing fights and your actions on fflogs can help identify those areas. You say that not all non-dps healers are like that, but I ask you, what do they do with their time that makes it so they can't dps? That time doesn't just magically disappear, it's there somewhere being occupied by something. I'm not saying all healers should be perfect, hell I'm far from perfect. But saying you don't have time to dps just isn't true. The time is there, people just need to learn how to find it.