Silver chest farming in PotD, harassed by speedrunners. (More ingored PvE harassment)

[RubenSnizzle]

I'm 99/99 and currently leveling a ninja, if u want to explore the whole map while the teleport is open, go ahead, i just won't go unless your dying. There's just no point in exploring every section of the map when they make it so easy to max out, let alone be 90/90 for the weapons.


I always wait at the teleport once its open while people explore the map, i never saw any of them complain to me. When ever i see topic like these, there must of been something else in there that they don't tell. Cause i personally never saw any potd drama about getting chest or speedrunning.

[Feidam]

I'm 99/99 and currently leveling a ninja, if u want to explore the whole map while the teleport is open, go ahead, i just won't go unless your dying. There's just no point in exploring every section of the map when they make it so easy to max out, let alone be 90/90 for the weapons.

I always wait at the teleport once its open while people explore the map, i never saw any of them complain to me. When ever i see topic like these, there must of been something else in there that they don't tell. Cause i personally never saw any potd drama about getting chest or speedrunning.

I understand the concern. Your attitude about it though is not what most do in potd at least in my experience. They'd rather behave inappropriately to try and get their way. I have seen trollish behavior from both sides of the spectrum though.

[Ama_Hamada]

So, let me ask you this: Assuming we would end up in a run - you and your friend wanting chests; me and my friend wanting only the exp (and therefor faster progression by not going fo chests) - and I propose that we go and explore and look for chests for the first 5 floors but proceed straight through the teleport for the last 5 floors - would that be accepted by you and your friend? Would you even think of proposing this yourself? Would you be willing to sacrifice part of your goal for my sake? Or are you only asking that of me?Maybe we kept missing each others points for the major part of this discussion but the main impression I had so far of you is a that of a person who isnt willing to compromisse either and instead sitting there, repeating over and over again that their way of playing is the only correct way - and thats an attitude that doesnt sit right with me, because its simply not true. So far you dont seem any better to me than a speedrunner who refuses to help - because you've made it very clear that you're not willing to go out of your way for the sake of someone who wants to play different since you despise that playstyle so much.



(I'm willing to take the blame since I'm bored and stubborn again)

Took a while since this is for my friend, not me, because she can't post here. (I know what you are going to say make long story short, GMs will not do anything to help her situation)

"I am not sure about working deals like this as it never came up. I never even thought of talking like that because of the situations I run into. I have call out macros to flag wondering monsters (called pats, short for patrols in wow) I also use these when people are far away and I need help. I typically go as a healer so it is not like I can take care myself with 99/99 gear. So when I use these, then have them go ignored I will say something along the lines of, 'I use those macros for a reason I need help when I use them' or 'why did you not come help me when i needed it?' After these statements I get the harassment and "toxicity" in the replies, as far as going to MPK me when I kicked out a speedrunner for just standing there when I asked for help. The reply was 'no I will not help you, I want to speed run so I am going to stand here afk' I really do not understand sitting at the gate thing saying you are going to afk while you watch 1 or 2 people struggle to fight monsters. It is not speed running at that point. It was very disrespectful having the second person that wanted to speedrun while me and Ama struggled to fight off monsters and stay alive. He just stood there doing dance emotes till we finally all wiped. I guess intentionally wiping a run that last for 15 minutes is called speedunning. " (I remember that... been a while)

"In the end it is DF, speedruns should not be expected. I am fairly sure yoshi-P made a remark about this back when it was at 50 cap. If you want to speed run, use PF, otherwise be prepared to slow down for people that can't handle it, for whatever reason."

I'm 99/99 and currently leveling a ninja, if u want to explore the whole map while the teleport is open, go ahead, i just won't go unless your dying. There's just no point in exploring every section of the map when they make it so easy to max out, let alone be 90/90 for the weapons.


I always wait at the teleport once its open while people explore the map, i never saw any of them complain to me. When ever i see topic like these, there must of been something else in there that they don't tell. Cause i personally never saw any potd drama about getting chest or speedrunning.

see above, this is more then just a conflict by the way, of course you have not seen it if you are willing to help. No strong willed speedrunner has ever helped us. There was a few times where a few people that preferred to speed run let her look for chest and helped as needed. There was no problems in those runs.

[Vidu]

Snip.

You (or she) didnt really answer my questions, but thats okay because saying "I never thought about offering a compromisse" is kinda speaking for itself too. I didnt asked what happend to her, I asked if she would be okay with that - I really dont want to come off rude here, but I can only repeat: Everyones intrests in PotD are equal. Yours arent more important than those of other people in that run. And it really is up to both sides to communicate and find a solution. I dont know if people in DF are willing to compromisse - but the question here was: is your friend?
If not, she isnt better than those people you are complaining about.
Saying "Its not a speedrun anymore if people arent helping me" is correct (and they probably should help instead of being stubborn) but at that moment your friend is just as stubborn and bad as them - and the reason it isnt a speedrun anymore.
I dont want to truely balme anyone, I'd just like to make you understand that both sides have a legitimate intrest here - your request for help is as valid as their request for faster progression. Complaining about your request being ignored while ignoring their request (because they are mutual exclusive, obviously) is a bit hypocrite - ofc you value your own intrests higher than theirs, but so do they. Expecting them to go out of their way for your sake isnt fair either.
I gave an idea for a compromisse - sadly, I didnt got to hear if that would be an acceptable solution or not.

Speedruns at level 50 cap in dungeons and so called "speedruns" in PotD are two different things: Dungeon-Speedruns constist of pulling large amounts of mobs, putting quite a bit of stress on the healer and tank (mainly). Which is most likely the main reason Yoshi said he disliked it - its stressing new people.
In PotD however speedrunning isnt putting more stress on anyone - its just skipping things. Its "not going for the optional chest that can contain a minion in AK" - its not "pulling everything to the first boosroom and expect people to handle that".

On the matter of it not being a speedrun anymore... lets just say: While I personally normally dont mind helping (unless the person who requires help acts like a rude jerk, because yes, that happens too), I always have a book and some cross stitching supplies at my desk - so sitting there for 5 minutes afk'ing isnt bothering me that much, even if the run takes longer: I got to use my time in a way that I prefer.

All I'm trying to say is: Communication here is important on both sides. And only asking for help isnt always enough or doing the trick. You are asking people to go out of their way for your benefit in that moment, while you're not showing that you're willing to do the same for them - at least so far I couldnt see any sign of that; specially not with all that "My way of playing is the correct way! So everyone has to follow it!"-stuff going on.

...and one last thing... you dont need to use the DF for PotD at all. You dont even need 4 people at all. If you're already two its very possible to clear that content without DF people at all - but I guess you want to speed your progress up by getting more people in, right...?

OP's way isn't denying people of their rewards. The speedrunners' way is denying people of rewards that they need.

Ops way and stand here isnt different from the people who refuse to help - both are having a mindset of "What I want is more important than what the rest of the group wants" - both are equally right and wrong at the same time. And as long as both sides arent willing to go out of their way for the others by a bit, no one wins...

[Ama_Hamada]

Speedruns at level 50 cap in dungeons and so called "speedruns" in PotD are two different things: Dungeon-Speedruns constist of pulling large amounts of mobs, putting quite a bit of stress on the healer and tank (mainly). Which is most likely the main reason Yoshi said he disliked it - its stressing new people.In PotD however speedrunning isnt putting more stress on anyone - its just skipping things. Its not going for the optional chest that can contain a minion in AK - its not pulling everything to the first boosroom and expect people to handle that.

You are wrong here, well sorta, sometimes anyway. My friend has kicked out people on purely on this reason too. It is one thing to be fast, it is another to run in leeeroy and be reckless. She vote kick and passed because this person ran into a room with 3 monsters, aggroed 3 monters that where pathing, and set off a trap. When she said do not run in rooms like that because it is too risky, the reply was "I do not control traps" then this went into a back and fourth of "do not run in rooms like that and it will not happen" "I do not control traps it is rng" So of course trying to heal though all those monsters stresses the heck out of her because she does not want to waste 20 odd minutes and her silver progress just because someone is reckless and lacks judgement. So when they almost caused another wipe from doing the same thing basically she kicked them. She is not going to give extra leeway to people that can "carry" on their 99/99

For your main point, I forgot that bit:
"It just depends on what the floors are. I do not like do 5 floors of this, 5 floors of that. I been on floors where a gold chest on the map hid 3 silver chests in the room, using the sight thing. I do not see why I can't explore one direction, just in the aim to see chests, while you clear the way in a different direction if you are that bent on going as fast as possible. I try my best to scout the rooms in the most timely manner not only for my time, but the time of 3 others. My best effort in this should be respected and so should my want in collecting silvers FOR MY NEEDED PROGRESS.

I am sorry but 1-5 minutes is not more valuable then needed progress, I do not understand at all why people are so obsessed with speed runs need go fast as possible while not caring about others. I seen people not even bothering to open chests that they run past, does that mean on 5 floors, I cant even take a second to open a chest that we might run by? or let me peak in side rooms? I queue as healer so I d not risk 4 dps runs to make things more difficult. From what I found, there is more time wasted arguing then just letting people find chests and help them when needed. So if you want to 'speed run' stop being stubborn and help? being stubborn about speed run only costs more time then you would of saved doing a speed run. this little remark still did not get replied to, for whatever reason. Is it really worth wasting 15 minutes of your time to MPK someone over not speed running?

As for the comment not to do solo or duo I simply find it too risky. I do not want to wipe on a late floor because rng BS, having 4 people show some kind of judgment is a safety measure. From my view you are assuming I am 99/99 and can solo it easy, well 30/30 is not soloing. DF is not for speedrunning, do not expect people to speed run in DF, if you want to speedrun so badly, PF. I do not expect people to be able to 12 min lib runs in DF, but they better have respectable rotations/gear/ when I put up a 250 average PF requirement, that means having a 250 + weapon. I do not like it when people bypass level requirements trying to carry a weak weapon because right side is so cheap." (She is referring to lore farming, using pf for that and not DF because you can't assume people can handle that speed in DF, much like it should be expected to run into people that want silvers. Maybe some people are "rude" that want silvers because they are sick of being abused by speedrunners, ever consider that?)

[Vidu]

Snip

Thank you very much for adding this bit - it has now become clear to me that your friend isnt willing to compromisse either because she has HER way of doing things and everyone should respect those more than their own ways.
I can respect her for making an effort and I can understand that she cares for her progression - dismissing this idea for a compromisse by saying "No, I want it my way" makes her no better than any "speedrunners" who want it their way.
She isnt even willing or able to take the perspective of those who dont want to explore, because shes focused on what she wants. Other people should move and explore and look for chests for HER benefit, but she cant skip floors for THEIR benefit? This isnt about how much time is saved or how much progression someone gains here, its about mutual respect and while I'm truely sorry about the directly disrespectful ways you both have been treated I find if very difficult to sympathise with your case since so far you've been showing a kinda self-centered attitude - while you're complaining about excatly about seeing that in other people.

If you're already removing people who arent playing by your rules using the vote kick function anyways you might be better off avoding the DF alltogether. Speedruns have their place in DF as much as any other kind of playstyle - and if you want to ensure a run goes your way: Make your own party, dont try to force it onto randoms. That really goes both ways - seeing how your friend doesnt seem to be willing to go out of their way, DF might not be the best place for them.

[Ama_Hamada]

Thank you very much for adding this bit - it has now become clear to me that your friend isnt willing to compromisse either because she has HER way of doing things and everyone should respect those more than their own ways.
I can respect her for making an effort and I can understand that she cares for her progression - dismissing this idea for a compromisse by saying "No, I want it my way" makes her no better than any "speedrunners" who want it their way.She isnt even willing or able to take the perspective of those who dont want to explore, because shes focused on what she wants. Other people should move and explore and look for chests for HER benefit, but she cant skip floors for THEIR benefit? This isnt about how much time is saved or how much progression someone gains here, its about mutual respect and while I'm truely sorry about the directly disrespectful ways you both have been treated I find if very difficult to sympathise with your case since so far you've been showing a kinda self-centered attitude - while you're complaining about excatly about seeing that in other people.

If you're already removing people who arent playing by your rules using the vote kick function anyways you might be better off avoding the DF alltogether. Speedruns have their place in DF as much as any other kind of playstyle - and if you want to ensure a run goes your way: Make your own party, dont try to force it onto randoms. That really goes both ways - seeing how your friend doesnt seem to be willing to go out of their way, DF might not be the best place for them.

You did not address this:

I seen people not even bothering to open chests that they run past, does that mean on 5 floors, I cant even take a second to open a chest that we might run by? or let me peak in side rooms? I queue as healer so I d not risk 4 dps runs to make things more difficult. From what I found, there is more time wasted arguing then just letting people find chests and help them when needed. So if you want to 'speed run' stop being stubborn and help? being stubborn about speed run only costs more time then you would of saved doing a speed run. this little remark still did not get replied to, for whatever reason. Is it really worth wasting 15 minutes of your time to MPK someone over not speed running?

As for the comment not to do solo or duo I simply find it too risky. I do not want to wipe on a late floor because rng BS, having 4 people show some kind of judgment is a safety measure. From my view you are assuming I am 99/99 and can solo it easy, well 30/30 is not soloing. DF is not for speedrunning, do not expect people to speed run in DF, if you want to speedrun so badly, PF. I do not expect people to be able to 12 min lib runs in DF, but they better have respectable rotations/gear/ when I put up a 250 average PF requirement, that means having a 250 + weapon. I do not like it when people bypass level requirements trying to carry a weak weapon because right side is so cheap." (She is referring to lore farming, using pf for that and not DF because you can't assume people can handle that speed in DF, much like it should be expected to run into people that want silvers. Maybe some people are "rude" that want silvers because they are sick of being abused by speedrunners, ever consider that?)

Your post is very insulting on the grounds you refuse to even answer why you care about speedrunning so much you wanna hinder someone's progress, as said:

OP's way isn't denying people of their rewards. The speedrunners' way is denying people of rewards that they need.

You did not answer this.
Speed runners take away silver chest farmer progress, silver farm people do not take anything away from speedrunners. It does not work "both ways" you even said this:

Speedruns at level 50 cap in dungeons and so called "speedruns" in PotD are two different things: Dungeon-Speedruns constist of pulling large amounts of mobs, putting quite a bit of stress on the healer and tank (mainly). Which is most likely the main reason Yoshi said he disliked it - its stressing new people.

Do not expect DFs to speedrun

[Vidu]

You did not address this:

Your post is very insulting on the grounds you refuse to even answer why you care about speedrunning so much you wanna hinder someone's progress, as said:

You did not answer this.
Speed runners take away silver chest farmer progress, silver farm people do not take anything away from speedrunners.

My bad, some part of your first answer wasnt showing when I responded - to adress the "I assume you're 99/99"-issue: No I dont. But I know for a fact that you dont have to be 99/99 at all to at least duo the floors til 100 - wanna know why? Because a friend and I did excatly that. Starting with being around 30/30 (sorry, dont recall excat numbers anymore, but since we never farmed PotD and only went through 1-50 once they cant have been higher) we went all the way to 100 - we wiped one time around 92(?) due to me having to take an important phone call and not being able to handle the three roaming enenmies we ran into (because, well, phone).

To answer it a bit clearer though: Yes, they do take something away from me - my time. And dont tell me its "only 5 minutes" again, as I tried to explain to you for me its more the gesture anyways: Are you willing to go out of your way for my benefit or are you only asking that of me?
Friend and I leveled his dragoon in PotD recently - from 57 to 60. According to him each 10 floors gave him around half a million exp. If the average run of PotD takes 15 minutes without chests and 20 minutes with and we have one hour its a difference between 1.5 million and 2 million exp. Besides the upgrades being not guranated - neither are "its only 5 more minutes". Due to the nature of PotD those 5 minutes can also turn into 10 or 15 (strechted over the whole run, not one floor) because the area being extremly large, lost of monsters around, stepping on traps that either lure more enemies or hinder the party (silence, pacem, frog...) - by stepping into the lamp right away, you eliminate the risk of something like that happening to you.
The fact that a run takes longer when someone refuses to help you is due to the fact that both are being stubborn - you AND them. Both parties are hurting here - yet you only ask one to just give up, while you're not willing to do that yourself.
Also: Being rude to someone because someone else was rude to you before isnt an excuse for your rude behaviour in that very moment.

Tune a down a notch btw - I'm being very polite, not "very insulting" just because I have an opinion that differs from yours.
I am not trying to side with speedrunners here - I merely try to show you that they're players who want to enjoy the game aswell and thyt you should consider their intrests too, not only yours. Same goes for them ofc - but someone has to make the first step. Sadly you arent more willing to do that than they are - so I rest my case here.

(Just a last piece of advice, in case your friend missed that: I assume she wants a proper weapon and does PotD because of that - I fully support taking care of having proper euqip and specially weapons. There are plenty of alternatives for PotD and if shes having such a hard time with that content she might want look into those. I would offer to craft a weapon for her, but since we arent on the same server thats obviously not an option... in the rare case that she is, shes welcome to send me a tell and request an ilvl250 weapon of her choice - crafted weapons, if by me or someonelse, are just one option ofc: PvP (235), Primal-tome-weapons (230->240), Shire (260->270), Relic (all the way up to 275!), aswell as various raid and ex-primal weapons ranging from 190 to 275)

At the end of the day it is a game and everyone is here to get some form of enjoyment out of it - by letting every little disagreement get to you like this and consider having a different opinion or way of approaching the game harrassment and insulting you're taking the fun out of the game for excatly one person and thats you. But thats not really any of my buisness - still, it might be a good idea to relax a little and dont cry "toxic", "harrassment" and "insult" as soon as you dont get something your way.

[MomomiMomi]

She vote kick and passed because this person ran into a room with 3 monsters, aggroed 3 monters that where pathing, and set off a trap.

Sounds like a case of git gud. 3 monsters and 3 spawned is nothing and should be handled no problem by the average party. In fact, it can be handled solo by a healer. That's not a reason to kick someone.

[Ama_Hamada]

Sounds like a case of git gud. 3 monsters and 3 spawned is nothing and should be handled no problem by the average party. In fact, it can be handled solo by a healer. That's not a reason to kick someone.

um 9 + she does not remember the original number of the room before the 3 adds and the 3 more from the lure since that person was greatly outpacing them. also stop assuming people are 99/99, sounds like your post is a case of assuming. They almost wiped, the full party, and on the second time of almost wiping the party, kicked the person when they would not slow down when asked to, because of the first time.