Until SE makes male and female glamours equal...

[Bacent]

Believe in the cause? Sure. I can't see any reason for the restrictions.

That said, I abhor the entire Glamour system. It has severely damaged my ability to become properly immersed in the game. There's nothing like seeing some moron bunny-hopping about town in a bikini to make me remember I'm playing a game, and one that is far goofier than I'd like.

I wonder if SE would consider an option to let us turn OFF other people's Glamours, as far as our personal view is concerned...

But how will people know I'm a Roecobo, kweh?

[JumperX]

snip.

In other words ( I'm talking mainly from ta point that I see most -in game girls- are actually guys) you are fine by female dressing masculine, but will have an iron law for man wanting to be effeminane. Most in game girls want to look "tomboy" or even dress with men outfits to play the role of male in society. I don't quiet see your point. If this MMO were just populated by female gender character may be?

[BigRed5392]

tbh I have no issues removing the gender lock clothing.

I met my g.f when I was a female miqo'te and we dated 2 years as 2 female characters. I only changed to a male au ra cuz of HW. I miss my miqo'te at times.
My g/f does too at times.


I think people should stop basig what is masculine or feminin on earth like modern culture. This is a high fantasy world that doesn't follow our rules.

Kinda tired of the irl politics bleeding into this debate. Which has 20 threads on it. Can we condense this to 1 thread, and just reply to that?

[Kaethra]

I support glamoring anything onto anything regardless of restriction (heck I support cloth on plate and plate on cloth and cross job, if a tank wants to look like a Black Mage, and they've done the quest, go for it). That's my personal opinion.

However realistically this thread will likely get ignored at best, locked at worst.

The reason for this is SquareEnix is not a western company. They come from a very traditionalistic culture, even more so than the puritannical one that seems to pervade evangelical regions of North America. Its not even going to compute in the heads of the producers to the reasons this thread even exists. To them its going to sound like "I'm X and I want A, because Y has A."

So they'll likely ignore it. Thinking the players are being silly. Or they'll think they are trolling and lock it. I think you all might want to try another method to convey the conversation you wish to start. As we know there is a serious disconnect between their producers and the NA/EU playerbase even before taking culture into mind. As it stands now the way SE sees it, girls that dress like guys are pretending to be guys to fit in (Faris in FFV). Or guys dressing like girls are performing a sort of silly scheme that's likely to end in a satirical outcome (Cloud in FFVII). Not a serious everyday wardrobe reflecting ones identity or equality.

I'd recommend taking it beyond the forums and into some form of media. Perhaps if they get bad press their PR departments will alert the producers that they're offending their consumer base and that action needs to be taken. One thing that is for certain is their culture is not one to insult their guests or hosts. Its weird that it has to be done that way. But most companies are that stubborn.

[Celef]

In other words ( I'm talking mainly from ta point that I see most -in game girls- are actually guys) you are fine by female dressing masculine, but will have an iron law for man wanting to be effeminane. Most in game girls want to look "tomboy" or even dress with men outfits to play the role of male in society. I don't quiet see your point. If this MMO were just populated by female gender character may be?

I think it's more about how it would be used by certain players :/
While a lot of them want it because it could be funny in an Hildibrand way, some might use it with harmful intent toward the LGBT community, making "fun" of them in a clearly non funny way or even use this to harass other players :/ (not sure if my statement is really clear, english is not my mother tongue so it's hard sometimes to express concept for me :/)

Peronnaly i'm all for getting rid of the gender lock / race lock but on the other hand, like i said in the hemphen set thread, i'm affraid how the internet community would use this.
People can be really creative when they want to be a pain sadly :/

[AlexanderThorolund]

However realistically this thread will likely get ignored at best, locked at worst.

We can but hope.

[Serilda]

Somebody needs to stuff a dude character into the 110 PVP BLM gear, stat. I need me some bushy tail.

It's my main caster PVP glamour and has been since the day I got it. Unfortunately I'm not very good at taking pictures so hopefully someone else can improve on my attempt!



The animal PVP sets are some of my very favourites in the game. You have hyper-masculine armour options and super-cute dresses all in one range, and if you don't like any of them you can just glamour something else on top. Love them or hate them, there's so much creativity in each of the designs. Far more so than most gear sets. Every single time I go to a starter city in my BLM gear I get /tells from new players praising it and asking how to earn it!

I love everything about the BLM set. The creepy mask. The sexy lingerie-style cut of the top. The insane heels. The claw-like gloves. The 'door knocker' shorts are a fun fashion statement on their own, too.

They come from a very traditionalistic culture, even more so than the puritannical one that seems to pervade evangelical regions of North America.

Then why do they keep giving us stuff that isn't locked? It's very arbitrary; a lot of the locked items are inherently genderless (wrist cuffs, if anything, are more masculine than feminine traditionally) and we have the exact same skirt model as one that is locked but without a bow stuck to it. I could fix the bow version for males for them in about five minutes given that the rigging and models already exist, and I'd wager their team is a lot more skilled than some freak on the Internet. They don't even have to add the bow at all; even unlocking the same model we already have with a different dye pattern or texture would be enough to satisfy people who just want to buy a glamour skirt and can't because the one for their gender is out of stock.

(Edit: I thought of another point I wanted to make here. The thing we're complaining about most is the unfairness of handing out extra in-game glamour sets to female characters, not that we cannot equip all of the exact same items - though I would certainly enjoy that too. Nobody is complaining about getting the male-only Justaucorps instead of the female-only Bustle, because the male-only version looks fantastic and the items were distributed fairly. We're complaining about things like the female-only Thavnairian Bustier where rather than letting guys wear it too with some minor removal of fabric to accommodate their lack of breasts, they added breast-covering fabric to the Thavnairian Bolero and made that unisex - literally performing extra modelling work explicitly to favour one half of the playerbase. The counter argument to our request is invariably a double standard that guys should wear clothes for guys, which is why Lukha has made this thread to illustrate that such a stance is nonsense in the world of FFXIV.)

If they had a hardline 'men are men, and women are women!' stance already, nobody would be this confused and annoyed because it would obviously seem pointless. The fact that they don't makes the arbitrary locking nonsensical. For example, men generally cannot wear stockings in this game (full tights are fine, but thigh-highs are not). That seems like a fairly consistent rule. Except they have already modelled stockings for males and let one or two sets slip through anyway. I don't usually dress like this (the gloves were a mistake...) and don't especially love the texture/look of this piece, but I would love some prettier thigh-highs some day. I think they would go beautifully with a bunch of other male-friendly items that already exist.



Meanwhile, female characters are showered with stockings and panty shots from a very early level. I feel for the poor Lalafell who probably see nothing but underwear most of the time. It would be nice if men could choose more stockings (the models exist) and women could choose to cover up more if they don't want to look like a wannabe teenager all the time.

I think it's more about how it would be used by certain players :/

I think this is a fair comment, but as S-E themselves have made fun of gender issues in this game (Hildi, certain characters which use the 'okama' stereotypes to various degrees depending on which language you play in) yet also been remarkably positive (opening up Eternal Bonding to same-sex couples, allowing guys to equip some very sexy gear, hinting at more than one perfectly healthy same-sex relationship), I don't think it's right to blanket ban all people with male characters from messing around with gender just in case a minority of people abuse it to run around in skirts deliberately ridiculing trans women. Female characters are allowed to dress like strippers - my wife certainly aims for that aesthetic - and that, too, has a lot of real life baggage associated with it. I don't think it's right to dictate fashion rules for everyone just because some people are awful.

Being gay and effeminacy is not synonymous nor mutually exclusive to each other. It's just being ignorant.

A thousand times this. People often round on the guys asking for less genderlocking by calling out the LGBT+ community. Clothes don't affect your sex and they don't affect your sexuality. These are all completely separate topics. Whether the people campaigning are male, female, straight, gay or identify somewhere outside those traditional categories, their opinions on aesthetics and gear are equally valid.

I'll just finish off with a picture of my guy wearing a bunch of male-only pieces along with a couple of unisex ones to celebrate his rugged masculine appeal. It may not be someone else's aesthetic, and I respect that preference, but personally I think guys look great in androgynous gear.

[Serilda]

so I reiterate...

Why reiterate the same points when people have deconstructed them for you already without response? I'll simplify it for you in case paragraphs are too difficult to read.

- FFXIV glamour has absolutely nothing to do with the 'gay thing'. Your confusion about that is a separate matter. Would you like help with it? You can /tell me in-game if you'd like to talk.

- The original poster is not gay. She's not even male. Perhaps the hints were too subtle, but she's gone out of her way to try to explain this to you.

- The idea of what constitutes masculinity and femininity is fluid across cultures; what passes for masculine behaviour in one region can seem outrageously effeminate in another. This is a global game. You're entitled to think a guy in a skirt is feminine, that's your opinion. Square-Enix likes putting guys in skirts. That's their opinion. The protest is about uneven treatment and inconsistent applications of these opinions, not about your personal hatred of guys with flowery hats.

- Not every glamour campaign is a serious commentary on real world social issues.

- I said it already but you seem too 'confused' to pay attention: clothing, gender and sexuality are not the same thing. You don't become gay or a woman just by wearing a ribbon. I promise. There's a lot more to gender issues than some frilly lace.

- I'm happily married and not even slightly confused, thanks. The only thing I'm confused about is why you're trolling this thread. We're not asking to take anything away from you.

- Many straight girls like androgynous guys, just like many straight men like girls in tuxedos. Interestingly, many gay guys aren't into androgynous guys, though many others are. You may not have figured this stuff out yet, but Japan sure has; spend a couple of seconds in Ikebukuro and you'll see the scale of this preference. It's a thing. Square-Enix's entire business model milks this element of the 'female gaze' and has done for many, many years. Please do try to keep up.

- I am sad at how similar our character names are ;(

[MagiusNecros]

junk

If it's silly and pointless you wouldn't care. Let people have fun.

[ErryK]

Yes please. As gay I'm still asking myself that question. If I am it's mainly because I don't wanna hang out with females. Today's people really confuse me.

You can be gay and wear effeminate clothing. Trying to oppress those who would like it as an option, is to be ignorant and close-minded.