As a healer, is it my job to DPS? A new perspective.

[Judge_Xero]

It simply wasnt he case and you dont know the situation, I was main healer at the time. I wish you read my posts.'.

I will admit that I don't know the situation, but what I quoted from you specifically asked to look up SCH Logs of you pushing 4500 HPS yourself to keep the party alive.

Intrigued that SCH would even be capable of such a feat without 100% Ballad uptime, I decided to look into your logs as requested. Please don't take this as me discrediting you or "bullying" but unlike people, numbers don't lie or stretch truths to make themselves bigger, they just are what they are. So what do we have:
- 4500 HPS - No (1800-2000 which is actually really high for a SCH on that fight)
- 2 attemps - No, it was 132 attempts
- Solo healing - No the WHM and AST in either group had heals under control, any extra caused extreme overheal.

The only truth I see from the numbers is that the group did fail mechanics occasionally and most deaths were simply 1 shots. The main mechanic that seemed to fail is having the adds die in time on the platforms where they fall into the lava, which extra healer DPS would most definitely have helped with and is something they absolutely excel at.

I am in no way perfect and lost count ages ago on how many deaths I've caused attempting to excel at the SCH class. The difference I feel between you and I is being able to take any criticisms and failures and using them to adapt and perfect my play style as well as my desire to be a strong asset to any party I run with whether it be strong healing or adapting to kill things faster and I don't think that makes me a toxic player.

What is toxic is not being good at something and not taking accountability to it and stepping up to improve, but instead expelling all those energies blaming others for ones own shortcomings. That is neither good for the community or ones self in improving.

It's too bad that you aren't in the same data center as me because it would be awesome to run some content with you, because I bet you're pretty decent as a main healer and I'm pretty good at adapting to my co-healers play style to really push both our limits.

[Clethoria]

What is toxic is not being good at something and not taking accountability to it and stepping up to improve, but instead expelling all those energies blaming others for ones own shortcomings. That is neither good for the community or ones self in improving.

Would you also tell someone to wear a face full of make up because it can "improve" the way they look? Some people are fine with a single line of eyeliner or none at all. "But you're improving yourself!" sounds by all means condescending and what you want them to do. Not what they want to do.

[bounddreamer]

Would you also tell someone to wear a face full of make up because it can "improve" the way they look? Some people are fine with a single line of eyeliner or none at all. "But you're improving yourself!" sounds by all means condescending and what you want them to do. Not what they want to do.

If we're talking about raiding savage content as a healer, you're not going to change the meta of savage healing by appealing to arguments about how "it's my playstyle to only heal." That's simply not going to happen. If you're raiding and healing savage content, you either work with your group to improve and do the very best of what your role demands, or you find another group that suits you better.

When it comes to casual content, the dps meta has crept in, but barring some outliers, the vast majority of players are going to let healers play how they want in duty finder. If a healer only heals and never touches their dps abilities for a run of the mill DF dungeon, it's whatever.

The distinction that Judge is making is when you step into savage content, you're going by the Savage content meta. So a SCH going into savage expecting to mostly heal is both not realistic, and it's a waste of their toolkit. Our SCH spends about 99% of A9S - A11S in cleric stance, dropping out of CS strategically to deploy a crit adlo or places where our main healer needs supplemental heals. Our SCH asks for their numbers. Our SCH has worked on their rotation to improve their dps. Our SCH has a friendly competition with me, the OT, to see who can push higher numbers.

It's a completely different story when you go into something like Dun Scaith with random (not a premade with people you can trust). Any healer is going to spend more time healing there, IF their party is unfamiliar with the duty and taking tons of damage and getting one-shotted.

Examples: ran Void Ark last week with my main healer from my static. We both spent the full run in cleric stance and my fairy did all the healing. I think we dropped out of CS maybe three times for shields and party buffs. A few days later, went into Dun Scaith on my own, got another SCH as co-healer. Both of us spent most of the run healing bc we had a party full of newbies. I was able to apply dots on most of the bosses but that was it.

Healer dps is situational. Whether or not you can do it, or must do it, depends on the duty you're running, the job you're on, the group you're with, and the expectations of your group.

Use your judgment, people.

[Taika]

"But you're improving yourself!" sounds by all means condescending and what you want them to do. Not what they want to do.

The thing is, it's tough trying to progress in extremely demanding team content (we are talking about Savage here) with 8 individuals who are just doing whatever they feel like.

Your comparison is also rather poor. This is more comparable to a football team where the goalie only wants to kick the ball into their own team's net. And then when someone asks them to stop what they're doing and focus on handling their part the way it's supposed to be handled, the goalie will scream about how they shouldn't be forced to play any other way than what they want.

If a goal keeper did that, then his team would likely lose, and then he would be blamed for it, cause he's not doing the job he's supposed to do.

That's exactly my point...

[Judge_Xero]

Would you also tell someone to wear a face full of make up because it can "improve" the way they look? Some people are fine with a single line of eyeliner or none at all. "But you're improving yourself!" sounds by all means condescending and what you want them to do. Not what they want to do.

If I was a Model Agency and I was interviewing a potential model, absolutely. I would ask them to adjust to whatever demographic I was targeting to make the most sales of my product. (Raiding analogy, pretty good eh )
Similar to how things need to be within reason with healing and DPSing, if I asked that same model to have plastic surgery performed completely altering their identity in order to work for my agency (so much though that they actually became a DPS) that is a bit extreme.

Now if that person wants to head off to the modelling forums and tell everyone how toxic the modelling industry is instead of getting a job with my company (instead of brushing their hair and teeth and maybe putting on some lipstick) there are tons of Barbie dolls that are lined up to take their spot.

Such a weird comparison, and I felt kind of silly even doing it, but hey I'm bored at work.

[craized]

The thing is, it's tough trying to progress in extremely demanding team content (we are talking about Savage here) with 8 individuals who are just doing whatever they feel like.

Your comparison is also rather poor. This is more comparable to a football team where the goalie only wants to kick the ball into their own team's net. And then when someone asks them to stop what they're doing and focus on handling their part the way it's supposed to be handled, the goalie will scream about how they shouldn't be forced to play any other way than what they want.

your analogy was terrible. If a goal keeper did that, then his team would likely lose, and then he would be blamed for it, cause he's not doing the job he's supposed to do. Extrapolate.

[Clethoria]

If I was a Model Agency

Except XIV isn't paying its players nor are the players trying to represent a company by getting a sponsored backing. You're talking to some stranger in a game, not someone who's looking to please you. FYI my major is fashion, I know how the industry works.

[CreinCrein]

I think it's more staying under your net when you're playing ball 24/7 rather than moving up with the team to setting up shots. Sure you'll block a handful of baskets, but your team misses the opportunity to sink a bunch - and at the end of the day even if you're team wins you're not going to be the reason why they did; you'll be a liability in comparison to someone else who can play D while setting up sick assists/shots of their own on the other side of the court. TLDR, don't stay under your net. Team game peeps

[Judge_Xero]

Except XIV isn't paying its players nor are the players trying to represent a company by getting a sponsored backing. You're talking to some stranger in a game, not someone who's looking to please you. FYI my major is fashion, I know how the industry works.

TBH I'm not very concerned about the fashion industry myself. I was just trying to have fun with the comparison you gave me. I'm not even that concerned about how people look as long as they aren't morbidly obese, cause that's just not my type. (too much cushion for the push'n if you know what I mean)

I do support healer DPS in raid settings so I just like to represent that in these forums.

I do want to debunk this misconception that people asking you to perform well in Raids/EX Primals is toxic behavior and unfortunately Feyona's story worked well in bringing a real-time player example of how such a situation could be taken the wrong way, and was somewhat in itself creating toxicity towards players who do demand a certain skill output for healers.
(i.e. They only gave me 2 chances to perform at 110% and it just wasn't good enough VS I had 132 chances to prove myself but I just couldn't reach their standard)

This does not mean that Feyona is not a good player. I'm sure we've all been in a situation like that, I know I have when I first started playing. I was a trash tank that couldn't even keep hate in a DF dungeon. I even had people leave the dungeon I was so terrible (Amdapor Keep). The players told me I was terrible before leaving and since then I've always tried to improve.

[craized]

Ok taika I'll spell it out for you, seeing as you completely missed my point. Your analogy doesn't work, here's why:

The football team is your group
The goalie is the healer.

The goalies job is to stop goals right? The healers job is to keep the team alive.
If the goalie is trying to score goals, he's not defending the goal. (HINT- this is the same as the healer not healing)


Hence your analogy falls flat.