Harassing Healers - or: Please allow Parsers

[Ama_Hamada]

My friend has this to say:

I commented on lack of DPS from DPS before as a healer when it is so bad it makes it hard to heal. This means lack of Aoe damage and even with my input of stun locking 3 times with 3 holy and tossing Aero III aoe for dot, if things die to slow, I burn though Mp too much making it hard to finish the dungeon on future pulls. You really have to be aware and know what jobs can do to some extent to know where there is a weakness.

Sometimes it is tank being under geared is the only reason a healer can't dps. I seen this in a great gubal libray (hard) for relic quest. I got so used to having 4 people in 260+ gear blasting stuff to clear the dungeon in 10-12 mins it was hard to adjust to not expecting the full size pulls. At first I was going to comment to the healer to toss some DPS around but when I checked the PLD having a 180 gear weapon (this place is average entry 210) I would consider this person under geared no matter what armor they had and too hard to make proper pulls and hold hate. If a DF says avg 210, you NEED A 210+ weapon and this should not be questioned. A weapon is way too important even more so since that effects the ability to hold hate and how well you live.

Anyways because of the gear issue all I said was the tank was undergeared for the DF and moved on. Because of having to heal such a thing, I did not care if the healer was dpsing or not. I hate healing undergeared people myself and I would not stress someone out over that, especially when the healer looked new themselves as well and hovering around the minum level entry. I felt sorry for for that healer.

The point of this story was to show why people should do the same. If things are bumpy look to see why and talk about it. It should not be "harassment" in telling someone they should not be gear level dodging the minimum requirements or give advice how to perform better. I had a very high geared BLM one run who would frequently single target dps on 10+ monsters and just casting the strangest rotations. It impressed me when my friend who was able to help the run at a faster pace be 20-30 levels lower per slot and 40 levels lower on weapon (235 vs 275 I believe) Top things off my friend is rather new to BLM and was not exactly performing the best rotations possible but she was doing good enough where I would not comment during a run even if it was a random member and did not know them, since it is hard to tell between good and excellent while doing your own thing. I guess it takes some experience to see if someone is really undermining, compared to the gear they are using, but you should consider a lot of factors before telling someone, like a healer "you need to DPS"

Even if it looks like a healer is standing around doing nothing, if something is making them very uneasy and not sure if the tank will take huge chunks of damage, unskilled warriors tend to have this issue the most, then it is a lot harder to ask a healer to dps. If a healer is new on top of issues like that.. well.. cut people a bit more slack when asking a random healer they have to dps.. please? Reason being is because the tank or the other DPS may make it hard for them to do so.

With that said, me nor my friend have no issues with DPS while healing, even when carrying. However it was not too long ago a group before a maint stuck me on heal only on an expert due to the PLD and other DPS being clueless.

[Gemina]

To be fair...! :| All my tanks as of late have been in DPS stance and popping no cooldowns even as I try to DPS, so go for it!

For quite some time now, most of my comms in 4-man have gone to the DPS because my tanks are constantly playing this way.

A common argument is how if a healer chooses to not DPS, then it is equally ok for a tank to not use their cooldowns and stay in DPS stance, and just focus on holding agro. This is not the same thing, and far more lazy. No one has to work harder if a healer chooses to not DPS. Things die a little bit slower, but there is no slack to be made up. But when a tank does a large pull and stays in DPS stance and doesn't use their CDs, the healer does have to work harder to keep them up, and in the case of a healer who does DPS, they will be unable to do so, or at best, be reduced.

I still don't gripe about it, and generally ok that I do have to heal more. It doesn't mean I don't recognize it. So no comm for the tank. They get my comm when they actually look out for me, which is easy to identify when my DPS goes way up.

[Taika]

A common argument is how if a healer chooses to not DPS, then it is equally ok for a tank to not use their cooldowns and stay in DPS stance, and just focus on holding agro. This is not the same thing, and far more lazy. No one has to work harder if a healer chooses to not DPS. Things die a little bit slower, but there is no slack to be made up. But when a tank does a large pull and stays in DPS stance and doesn't use their CDs, the healer does have to work harder to keep them up, and in the case of a healer who does DPS, they will be unable to do so, or at best, be reduced.

I guess the "logic" behind this behaviour is that if the healer would otherwise be doing barely nothing (if the healing requirements are really low), the tank is intentionally making them work harder - similar with DDs who are saying they'll be standing in AoEs. It's just spiteful behaviour.

On the other hand, depending on the situation it might be good for the party if the tank will just stay in DPS stance for the majority of the pull, since then they can make up for some of the DPS lost from the non-DPSing healer (and this is the slack that can be made up) and the healer gets to contribute a bit more in a way that's more pleasant for them. If this is the motivation for the tank's choice, I don't see why it would be a bad thing (although tanks spend a lot of time in DPS stance already with healers who also DPS...). I do a similar thing if I'm a healer paired with another who doesn't DPS at all: I will tone down my own healing (sometimes to nothing at all) to do more DPS and to let the other healer heal more.

[Tint]

A common argument is how if a healer chooses to not DPS, then it is equally ok for a tank to not use their cooldowns and stay in DPS stance, and just focus on holding agro. This is not the same thing, and far more lazy. No one has to work harder if a healer chooses to not DPS. Things die a little bit slower, but there is no slack to be made up. But when a tank does a large pull and stays in DPS stance and doesn't use their CDs, the healer does have to work harder to keep them up, and in the case of a healer who does DPS, they will be unable to do so, or at best, be reduced.

you know, i played tank for over a year now. and as a tank i do have to work harder when the healer does dps. with less heal i have to use my cds and selfheals better, as a drk the mana management is harder when things die faster, especially when the whm stunlocks with holy. i had some case where in arf the stuff died that fast that i simply had no mana left to build aoe enmity, blood price was only every second group up (and of course i had an whm in the party^^ )

of course that's fine, that was the most awesome run ever. but think about it the next time you go full dps: you force other people to play harder as well ^^

[Niko_Kishiko]

We definitely need dps meter that everyone can see. Too often I see tanks and healers basically carrying the dps because they are so bad. Maybe if the dps see how bad they are and know others see it too they will actually learn to play instead of crying that the healers need to dps more. They will learn that the runs were slow because it's actually just the dps is terrible.

[BigRed5392]

you know, i played tank for over a year now. and as a tank i do have to work harder when the healer does dps. with less heal i have to use my cds and selfheals better, as a drk the mana management is harder when things die faster, especially when the whm stunlocks with holy. i had some case where in arf the stuff died that fast that i simply had no mana left to build aoe enmity, blood price was only every second group up (and of course i had an whm in the party^^ )

of course that's fine, that was the most awesome run ever. but think about it the next time you go full dps: you force other people to play harder as well ^^

my g/f has the same issues and it stresses her out. She uses all her cd well imo, and still end up sitting at under 50% hp, and because people run around with mobs, drains mo at every pull. 90% of each pull she uses the mp/hp rotation.

this like this make her feel like she is a bad player, something she dealt with in ff11 when playing rdm. She told me they called her bad for being a melee caster/buffer instead of playing as a mp/hp battery. :/

I'm just trying my best to be a good boyfriend and stick up for her, and stick up for people who get stressed out because of people in the "healers must dps" threads. I have yet seen a thread about bad dps, it is always mentors, tanks and healers.

I comforted my g/f who became stressed out during her weeping city run, she died a lot and became very upset. Had to leave the run at ozama because she was crying her eyes out, due to fear her mistakes were going to give her hate. Her alliance was very silent, and her group wasn't very helpful

She was in group A who ran every which way, and it was very chaotic. At some parts they just didn't raise her :/

It is threads and mindsets like this causing her stress, you guys may not realize it, but you do come off as bully or harassing. If you want to play with people that meet a certain criteria... please make friends of like minded individuals, and group up, and don't even dare try to strawman flipping it back of us needing to do it. the "i'm rubber your glue" mindset is childish.

if the jp community can be organized we can.

[BigRed5392]

We definitely need dps meter that everyone can see. Too often I see tanks and healers basically carrying the dps because they are so bad. Maybe if the dps see how bad they are and know others see it too they will actually learn to play instead of crying that the healers need to dps more. They will learn that the runs were slow because it's actually just the dps is terrible.

no it wouldn't dcuo taught me it is easy to manipulate a parse meter. People do it already, when you see 2 dps attacking 2 dos mobs they are trying to claim to be top parse. mobs have set hp, and typically the first hardest hitter will get the top. hard hitter doesn't automatically mean good player.

[Ama_Hamada]

I'm just trying my best to be a good boyfriend and stick up for her, and stick up for people who get stressed out because of people in the "healers must dps" threads. I have yet seen a thread about bad dps, it is always mentors, tanks and healers.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...tutorial-tests

Bad DPS can give a hard time to healers. This gem made my friend stick to only healing when she is usually able find some point to DPS no matter the case.

no it wouldn't dcuo taught me it is easy to manipulate a parse meter. People do it already, when you see 2 dps attacking 2 dos mobs they are trying to claim to be top parse. mobs have set hp, and typically the first hardest hitter will get the top. hard hitter doesn't automatically mean good player.

The only way it is "manipulated" is having a pocket AST while standing in bad. It is not common but ya ... my friend had deal with it once in dun that put all the work in her hands.

[ZioSerpe]

If I "did" do that as DPS regularly, though, I'd imagine I would receive harassment for it. Actual one at that.

Oh you'd be surprised on how much you can get away in larger scale content.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

We can be the type of people that enjoy every instance, instead of walking away from DF frustrated by the community.

And I can say without a doubt the most annoying and least fun runs were the ones where the healer was spamming dps with hardly a care for their main role, and the ones where people were bitching at the healer for not doing enough deeps when I can see plain as day how the complainers are lacking.

Improve dps players first, then whine about heal only healers, otherwise you're just letting a bigger problem fester and grow.