Cleric Stance Discussion - Is it needed?

[VeliusVire]

Base healer dps off of Mind

I don't think many Healers who don't want to DPS realise how much worse their predicament would become if this change were to happen, because now they have absolutely no excuse for not contributing DPS, thus making the Healer DPS Meta pretty much guaranteed across the board.

[PocketVolcano]

I don't think many Healers who don't want to DPS realise how much worse their predicament would become if this change were to happen, because now they have absolutely no excuse for not contributing DPS, thus making the Healer DPS Meta pretty much guaranteed across the board.

I think most just aren't comfy with being in a stance that slashes their healing ability and can't jump quick enough when something unpredictable happens. Getting rid of that ball and chain would probably make people feel better about throwing that Stone 2 or Gravity.

[Ayer2015]

I don't think many Healers who don't want to DPS realise how much worse their predicament would become if this change were to happen, because now they have absolutely no excuse for not contributing DPS, thus making the Healer DPS Meta pretty much guaranteed across the board.

They keep saying they want to close the skill gap. DPS scaled off MND would do just that.
Given we see Ice BLMs, you will come across healers refusing to dps regardless.

[Alistaire]

I don't think many Healers who don't want to DPS realise how much worse their predicament would become if this change were to happen, because now they have absolutely no excuse for not contributing DPS, thus making the Healer DPS Meta pretty much guaranteed across the board.

Look, stop calling this a meta. This doesn't happen because players decided to play the game a different way; the game is designed to give healers room to dps outside of raids, and even sometimes then.

[JunseiKei]

Look, stop calling this a meta. This doesn't happen because players decided to play the game a different way; the game is designed to give healers room to dps outside of raids, and even sometimes then.

Meta means any tactic, action or method which transcends the game's rules or conventions. The content is specifically set up to not require DPS from healers or anything other than simple enmity rotation from tanks. Expecting healers to DPS is an external factor that does, indeed, make it meta.

[Alistaire]

Meta means any tactic, action or method which transcends the game's rules or conventions.

And that's exactly why this shouldn't be called a meta. What are you gonna say next? Telling a melee they should aoe packs of 10 mobs instead of single-targetting a meta? lol

Things that do become meta are mostly in pvp type situations where certain things would be good, but become not good because everyone uses strategies to counter it. (And those counter-strategies also become referred to as meta)

[JunseiKei]

And that's exactly why this shouldn't be called a meta. What are you gonna say next? Telling a melee they should aoe packs of 10 mobs instead of single-targetting a meta? lol

Things that do become meta are mostly in pvp type situations where certain things would be good, but become not good because everyone uses strategies to counter it. (And those counter-strategies also become referred to as meta)

Meta is much broader than "strat VS strat" in a competitive setting. We'll have to agree to disagree.

[MomomiMomi]

Meta is much broader than "strat VS strat" in a competitive setting. We'll have to agree to disagree.

Meta comes from knowledge the player has that comes from outside of the game itself. Healers DPSing isn't meta. "The majority of my opponents are using X strategy, therefore Y strategy is advantageous." This is meta.

Healers DPSing simply comes from the fact that healers have nothing else to do. This isn't meta.

[JunseiKei]

Meta comes from knowledge the player has that comes from outside of the game itself. Healers DPSing isn't meta. "The majority of my opponents are using X strategy, therefore Y strategy is advantageous." This is meta.

Healers DPSing simply comes from the fact that healers have nothing else to do. This isn't meta.

*Facepalm.*

Considering that healer DPS is completely left out of the equation of fights is what makes it meta, not strategic. You guys keep using strategic examples as well.

It's anything outside of the confines of a game. Healers DPSing is not meta, no, as that is within the confines of the game. It is the application (telling healers to DPS in their downtime) as none of the fights take healer DPS into consideration that makes it meta.

Statweights are metagame. Timing your skills together is metagame. MCH not using hypercharge as soon as it comes up and waiting for members' skill to come up requires external knowledge of the game/ coordination between multiple people compensating for the knowledge of each other's cooldowns in a given situation. This is making a decision that has been influenced by external knowledge rather than based on fundamental strategy alone. You may use a meta in a strategy, but that does not make a meta a strategy.

Poker and minesweeper have metas. Hell, even tabletop RPGs like Dungeons and Dragons have metagame.

Meta can be something like picking sides in fighting games or whether you sit close to an opponent or far away. Counter picking is another, and common, example of a meta. As I said, it is a broad term and we will agree to disagree. You guys are mistaking them like a sphere and a circluar- similar, but not the same. From your perspectives, you can't see the 3D over the 2D.

[Naunet]

I don't think many Healers who don't want to DPS realise how much worse their predicament would become if this change were to happen, because now they have absolutely no excuse for not contributing DPS, thus making the Healer DPS Meta pretty much guaranteed across the board.

Not if SE designed encounters that actually require healing... THAT's the core problem.