Cleric Stance Discussion - Is it needed?

[Ayer2015]

I don't think many Healers who don't want to DPS realise how much worse their predicament would become if this change were to happen, because now they have absolutely no excuse for not contributing DPS, thus making the Healer DPS Meta pretty much guaranteed across the board.

They keep saying they want to close the skill gap. DPS scaled off MND would do just that.
Given we see Ice BLMs, you will come across healers refusing to dps regardless.

[Alistaire]

I don't think many Healers who don't want to DPS realise how much worse their predicament would become if this change were to happen, because now they have absolutely no excuse for not contributing DPS, thus making the Healer DPS Meta pretty much guaranteed across the board.

Look, stop calling this a meta. This doesn't happen because players decided to play the game a different way; the game is designed to give healers room to dps outside of raids, and even sometimes then.

[JunseiKei]

Look, stop calling this a meta. This doesn't happen because players decided to play the game a different way; the game is designed to give healers room to dps outside of raids, and even sometimes then.

Meta means any tactic, action or method which transcends the game's rules or conventions. The content is specifically set up to not require DPS from healers or anything other than simple enmity rotation from tanks. Expecting healers to DPS is an external factor that does, indeed, make it meta.

[Alistaire]

Meta means any tactic, action or method which transcends the game's rules or conventions.

And that's exactly why this shouldn't be called a meta. What are you gonna say next? Telling a melee they should aoe packs of 10 mobs instead of single-targetting a meta? lol

Things that do become meta are mostly in pvp type situations where certain things would be good, but become not good because everyone uses strategies to counter it. (And those counter-strategies also become referred to as meta)

[Naunet]

I don't think many Healers who don't want to DPS realise how much worse their predicament would become if this change were to happen, because now they have absolutely no excuse for not contributing DPS, thus making the Healer DPS Meta pretty much guaranteed across the board.

Not if SE designed encounters that actually require healing... THAT's the core problem.

[Elleia]

I feel like removing cleric stance would be a bad idea. Yes, if they remove it and scale healer DPS off of mind, it becomes easier...but the risk of cleric stance and knowing when to use it is part of the fun for me. I get to challenge myself and see how much damage I can output while still keeping everyone up. This would be made pretty trivial if there was no stance dancing involved.

[PocketVolcano]

I feel like removing cleric stance would be a bad idea. Yes, if they remove it and scale healer DPS off of mind, it becomes easier...but the risk of cleric stance and knowing when to use it is part of the fun for me. I get to challenge myself and see how much damage I can output while still keeping everyone up. This would be made pretty trivial if there was no stance dancing involved.

WildStar was able to easily pull this off with Spellslinger and Medic. Medic being the pure melee healer that stay in melee range and its aoe and cone attacks would heal allies and damage enemies. It also put out little robots that stays near each party member and pulsates small heals to them, a HoT. Spellslinger was a ranged healer with long, thin attacks (in either | or \|/ form) that you would build up to unleash powerfull spells, and it also healed those within its path. Both healers also had regular, normal heals for targets.

It's just all about being creative, and jumping to and fro between a stance that just seems like extra baggage doesn't seem very creative than where to properly place your aoe and stand your character so you can utilize the best of your heals and your damage spells. Don't forget, you're doing all this while also dodging very quick aoes that do stupid huge amounts of damage

[Elleia]

WildStar was able to easily pull this off with Spellslinger and Medic. Medic being the pure melee healer that stay in melee range and its aoe and cone attacks would heal allies and damage enemies. It also put out little robots that stays near each party member and pulsates small heals to them, a HoT. Spellslinger was a ranged healer with long, thin attacks (in either | or \|/ form) that you would build up to unleash powerfull spells, and it also healed those within its path. Both healers also had regular, normal heals for targets.

It's just all about being creative, and jumping to and fro between a stance that just seems like extra baggage doesn't seem very creative than where to properly place your aoe and stand your character so you can utilize the best of your heals and your damage spells.

Can't say I'm very familiar with WildStar, but isn't the combat more action focused, with dodging and things like that? It sounds interesting but I'm not sure how well it would translate to a game like this one with GCDs. And while it does seem creative, and maybe they can use a similar concept for a new healer down the line, I doubt they'll revamp the three current healers so heavily for Stormblood. If they decide to remove cleric stance, that'll probably be all they do - scale healer DPS off of mind and call it a day. We likely won't get an interesting new system for healer dps like you outlined in your post.

[Zhamkyong]

Can't say I'm very familiar with WildStar, but isn't the combat more action focused, with dodging and things like that? It sounds interesting but I'm not sure how well it would translate to a game like this one with GCDs. And while it does seem creative, and maybe they can use a similar concept for a new healer down the line, I doubt they'll revamp the three current healers so heavily for Stormblood. If they decide to remove cleric stance, that'll probably be all they do - scale healer DPS off of mind and call it a day. We likely won't get an interesting new system for healer dps like you outlined in your post.

As i recall from the time i played from the rework of the game it it's more combat/dogde oriented, yes, but FFXIV already has that feeling (we are smashing buttons fast on a rotation of our abilities and runing avoiding AoE), the only thing we dont have about that it's a dash button of some sort... Maybe a couple of abilities that some classes have to move fast from point A to B and thats it if i am not mistaken.

Edit:
As for the post itself and the Cleric Stance, if they do that they would have to balance the damage so the healers dont beat pure dps classes in terms of dps. Sch has it's dots (and those are pretty powerful by themselves), the other two Holy and Gravity (along another strong single target spells or more Aoe if we talk about Whm). I have not healed in a long time, but i recall using the last to help clearing trash mobs with good numbers and i know i am not pretty well geared with the class. Stance dancing is fun and involves a certain risk on doing it as i see it, removing it would improve the healers and encourage them to use theyr damage kit even more. But, as i said, they would have to balance it or i can see the forums on fire again about theyr potential on healing/damage in comparasion with another classes. (And i am pointing at those who have lower dps for their support kit)

I think most just aren't comfy with being in a stance that slashes their healing ability and can't jump quick enough when something unpredictable happens. Getting rid of that ball and chain would probably make people feel better about throwing that Stone 2 or Gravity.

Pretty much this.

[PocketVolcano]

As i recall from the time i played from the rework of the game it it's more combat/dogde oriented, yes, but FFXIV already has that feeling (we are smashing buttons fast on a rotation of our abilities and runing avoiding AoE), the only thing we dont have about that it's a dash button of some sort... Maybe a couple of abilities that some classes have to move fast from point A to B and thats it if i am not mistaken.

Yes it is! The GCDs are also very similar in speed in WildStar as in FFXIV. Didn't Yoshi say they were putting in a dodge-roll or something? Or was it just suggested? Either way it's a fully implemented mechanic in Wildstar and it works well alongside the high intensity fights and healing demands!

I think the dev team can do more with healer dps and getting some inspo from high action games and how they do it could be a stepping point.