Sorry Yoshi, but if you award the best weapon in the game by winning the lottery...

[Xerek]

Where do you draw the line? Is it at "fun"? I'd argue those griefers are having fun doing what they do, at the expense of others. It's pretty terrible to defend the actions of **** people, just because you don't agree with something the devs do to the game.

You can't logically blame the devs for the bad actions of others in this type of context. They created content, regardless if the individual liked it or not, and people are supposed to do it as intended (which doesn't involve messing with other peoples objectives). That'd be like blaming the victim(s) of a crime IRL for having existed at all, or to a lesser extent, blaming anyone frustrated by the griefers actions for taking part in something said griefer has problems with. No one is that high and mighty.

I said partial blame, and earlier in this same thread condemned the behavior. I am justifying nothing, mearly saying the devs were indeed partially responsible for it.

[Lunafreya]

People kick, harass and wipe for fun. If they don't like the content, they can simply not do it.
No opinion could justify acting like dicks to the rest of the community.

The irony is that people q in diadem and do nothing anyway. What's your stance there?

[Xerek]

Basically, Yoshi-P thought the i280s would be fun, and not taken seriously. They were thrown into the new Diadem as additional incentive for people that already had an anima and/or relic. Problem is, he completely underestimated what BiS meant to some players. For some people, having BiS from completion until SB was one of, or even the only, reason some people put up with the horrific grind. And those people had that nullified after just nine days.

Given the train wreck the new Diadem's become, I was curious what his response would be. What we got was that people should just settle down, basically saying that caring about BiS was stupid and it was stupid to make an anima for that reason. Well, *I* made one for that reason, so his response was, to me, a slap in the face. I've since unsubbed.

Yoshi-P needs to realize and respect *all* the reasons players drop countless hours on his content. Maybe this debacle will be a wake-up call.

[Welsper59]

I said partial blame, and earlier in this same thread condemned the behavior. I am justifying nothing, mearly saying the devs were indeed partially responsible for it.

I get what you're trying to say, but I'm also pointing out that it's an irrelevant and illogical point to make. You're saying that it's because they made it, they hold some degree of blame for it and essentially should be held accountable for that degree of blame. Akin to how the person who first created a working gun, should be held accountable for every single death in human history with guns. Or how the people that create plastic bags should be held accountable for any suffocation that occurs with babies. I'm just pointing out how illogical it is to truly view it that way though.

If you're willing to stretch the blame to that degree, then it should also be acceptable to blame literally every single one of us for the same situation (that includes you and me). We bring these types of situations to light for anyone to read, thus spreading the word that if some d-bags can get away with it, they could too. We bring to light that people react favorably (i.e. get frustrated) to the trolls goal.

Do you see what I'm getting at here? Reaching to an unnecessary degree to find blame in others, for the actions of specific individuals, is pointless and simply encourages such behavior to continue. "I'm not the only one to blame here. It's SE's fault too for why I grief people. They should never have put those weapons in Diadem, even Xerek agrees that I'm not the only one to blame for my ruining other peoples fun." Condemn it as you have, but that mentality of blaming devs for bad actions of other players (when the content doesn't involve doing such bad actions) is counter to your distaste for the action.

[Xerek]

*snip for character limit*

If someone were reckless enough to fly a helicopter over a crowd and dump bags full of $100 bills, letting it rain over people, it would be a riot. People would do horrible things to one another to get that money. And you better believe the people that dumped the money would be held at least partially responsible. Same principle here. SE's inclusion of RNG uber-weapons has had a terrible and very easily predictable outcome. You add weapons better then anything else in the game, rendering the raid and anima weapons people busted their asses on second-best, then act shocked when people do horrible things to one another about them?

[RenAshdoll]

Chara Limit

Except that they did not suddenly dished i280 for free to a selected group for absolutely no effort. Current griefing is more of players tearing up ppl's ticket to a lottery for a monetary prize. The morality of whatever actions the griefers took is based on their decision that no one should win the lottery and they themselves are responsible for it, not the developers.

[Xerek]

Except that they did not suddenly dished i280 for free to a selected group for absolutely no effort. Current griefing is more of players tearing up ppl's ticket to a lottery for a monetary prize. The morality of whatever actions the griefers took is based on their decision that no one should win the lottery and they themselves are responsible for it, not the developers.

Except the devs made a concious decision to invalidate the raid and anima weapons, while simultaniously putting the new BiS weapons behind a 100% RNG wall and you wonder why some people are lashing out? I don't condone it at all, but I understand it, and SE is most definately partially at fault.

[Aniond]

Why do people care what other people get in a game

[Lambdafish]

I was curious what his response would be. What we got was that people should just settle down, basically saying that caring about BiS was stupid and it was stupid to make an anima for that reason.

What I have learned is that the dev team knows that rewards are meaningless, and instead of fixing it, they turn a blind eye and use them as short term cash ins for content, which is a horrible way to design content in a sub MMO.

I haven't unsubbed but I have stopped listening to Yoshi P's words of wisdom. Theres a discussion going around about Yoshi P wanting to remove cleric stance, and my response is simply "Yoshi P isn't the best judge of what is good for this game anymore".

Why do people care what other people get in a game

We don't, we care how the reward system is designed, what that means for our existing rewards, and what it means for future content.

[Aniond]

What I have learned is that the dev team knows that rewards are meaningless, and instead of fixing it, they turn a blind eye and use them as short term cash ins for content, which is a horrible way to design content in a sub MMO.

I haven't unsubbed but I have stopped listening to Yoshi P's words of wisdom. Theres a discussion going around about Yoshi P wanting to remove cleric stance, and my response is simply "Yoshi P isn't the best judge of what is good for this game anymore".



We don't, we care how the reward system is designed, what that means for our existing rewards, and what it means for future content.

I'll concede that. It almost came across as a end of the expansion catch up to me. It's sole purpose is to get people gear before it goes live