Healers that don't want to DPS are like DPSes who refuse to move out of AoEs.

[LunarEmerald]

I am fully aware. You're cutting the DPS of SMN short by excluding the DoTs, Shadowflare and Blizzard II (and enkindle etc.). Trust me, SMN does 5-6k DPS vs WHM 3k DPS on AoE trash packs.

Look at the potencies yourself. Painflare is 200. If you bane, you can use it twice. Holy is also 200.

When we take dots out of picture for simplicity sake.

Summoner: 200. 50..50..200...400

White Mage: 200..200..200..200..200..200..200

We also can't blow 6 stacks of aetherflow in one pull or we'll have nothing for the next. So using the second set isn't an option.

Summoner definitely does more aoe damage in the long run but in like 15 second encounters, we don't beat a white mage that burns all their MP on holy.

[Rita1989]

2 painflares and a deathflare don't beat multiple back to back holy's and dots only matter if the enemies live long enough.

You don't seem to realize just how much holy spam does in quick succession.

They also can combine it with Assize and presence of mind so mobs usually are dead before you can get to deathflare or your wasting it on mobs with almost no hp

[Kaurie]

Look at the potencies yourself. Painflare is 200. If you bane, you can use it twice. Holy is also too

When we take dots out of picture

Summoner: 200. 50..50..200...400

White Mage: 200..200..200..200..200..200..200

We also can't blow 6 stacks of aetherflow in one pull or we'll have nothing for the next. So using the second set isn't an option.

Summoner definitely does more aoe damage in the long run but in like 20 second encounters, we don't beat a white mage that burns all their MP on holy.

The dots are 140 total with shadowflare + bio/miasma/bio 2, which go up instantly with tridisaster and bane and swift/shadowflare, so that's a background 190..190..190.. with blizzard II added on, then add in Painflare and Deathflare. Then add in raging strikes and enkindle/aerial slash.

Regardless of Potencies, the SMN does nearly 2x damage of WHM on trash packs when parsed.

On a 20 second encounter, we most certainly beat WHM.

EDIT: Also, missed this part on my first response, never use both stacks of aetherlow lol.. Just 1 stack is needed to melt a trash pack.

[LunarEmerald]

The dots are 140 total with shadowflare + bio/miasma/bio 2, which go up instantly with tridisaster and bane and swift/shadowflare, so that's a background 190..190..190.. with blizzard II added on, then add in Painflare and Deathflare. Then add in raging strikes and enkindle/aerial slash.

Regardless of Potencies, the SMN does nearly 2x damage of WHM on trash packs when parsed.

On a 20 second encounter, we most certainly beat WHM.

EDIT: Also, missed this part on my first response, never use both stacks of aetherlow lol.. Just 1 stack is needed to melt a trash pack.

You can't use raging strikes and enkindle on every pull so I didn't include those.

If we blow everything we have, yeah we win but it's not practical and raging is better saved for bosses.

[Atos]

This community has known and openly agreed to for the most part that this game needs very little healing in most content and scenarios. That's been talked about and like I said- mainly agreed upon, so why talk about it more?

Which leaves the next issue, pointing fingers at a subcommunity within the community as a whole (Who reminded, agree that healing requirements are HEAVILY undertuned) who instead of making the best out of a shallow situation (Dps or nothing) choose nothing. CHOOSE nothing.

So yes, you're trying to scapegoat with a well known and agreed upon game design flaw. The healers may not have to heal much, but that doesn't mean they have to do nothing.

Say what? Agreed upon where? I don't see any agreement, I didn't agree on anything. And regardless of what you agree upon with whom you still have no business telling me how to play.

Most people who complain about healers not dps'ing do not themselves play as healers, let alone raid heal. Then you get brand new players who got carried through latest primal, saw a thread like this then start going off at people without any idea what they're talking about. Healers heal, they don't do nothing. The content I mostly play is raiding and primals, where good healing is pretty relevant. And quit hiding behind "community that agreed upon something" - what you say is your own assertion, take responsibility for what you say.

[Kaurie]

You can't use raging strikes and enkindle on every pull so I didn't include those.

OK, well you're also forgetting that Holy hits for less on every enemy after the first, so it's not really a flat 200.

Deals unaspected damage to all nearby enemies with a potency of 200 for the first enemy, 10% less for the second, 20% less for the third, 30% less for the fourth, 40% less for the fifth, and 50% less for all remaining enemies.

So a 200 holy on 6 enemies does 200 + 180 + 160 + 140 + 120 + 100 + 100 = 1000
vs
a 200 painflare on 6 enemies does 200 + 200 + 200 + 200 + 200 +200 + 200 = 1400
edit: add that onto bane for 115 potency per mob + shadowflare for 35 potency per mob + blizzard II for 50 potency per mob.

That said, you have 2 pulls between bosses: you can use Raging + enkindle like so:.

First trash of 6, then on boss, then 2nd trash after that boss, then first trash after the 2nd boss, then final boss - or so. While not every pull, it's at least half of them.

[Greedalox]

Say what? Agreed upon where? I don't see any agreement, I didn't agree on anything. And regardless of what you agree upon with whom you still have no business telling me how to play.

Healers heal, they don't do nothing.

I've yet to hear a single argument by this community that this game offers full or near chain healing expectations out of a healer. That is mainly agreed upon. I don't tell you how to play either, I'm saying I and apparently many others in the community have a basic expectation out of you- apparently more than you have for yourself?

Healers heal for 20% of the time, and THEN they do nothing. Sorry misconception I may have spread to make you think I said they 100% of the time do nothing.

You do you, no matter how many people agree or disagree with your laze, you always have full control. Nobody has ever said anything about taking that from you. I hope you're not asserting that other players be revoked of their rights to kick you though for laziness.

[LunarEmerald]

OK, well you're also forgetting that Holy hits for less on every enemy after the first, so it's not really a flat 200.

Deals unaspected damage to all nearby enemies with a potency of 200 for the first enemy, 10% less for the second, 20% less for the third, 30% less for the fourth, 40% less for the fifth, and 50% less for all remaining enemies.

So a 200 holy on 6 enemies does 200 + 180 + 160 + 140 + 120 + 100 + 100 = 1000
vs
a 200 painflare on 6 enemies does 200 + 200 + 200 + 200 + 200 +200 + 200 = 1400
edit: add that onto bane for 115 potency per mob + shadowflare for 35 potency per mob + blizzard II for 50 potency per mob.

That said, you have 2 pulls between bosses: you can use Raging + enkindle like so:.

First trash of 6, then on boss, then 2nd trash after that boss, then first trash after the 2nd boss, then final boss - or so. While not every pull, it's at least half of them.

That does complicate the equation. Anyway, the point I was trying to make is that Holy makes a huge difference in the speed of a run. It's not the 1-2 minutes that some people claim. In dungeons, enemies die significantly faster with it.

[Kaurie]

That does complicate the equation. Anyway, the point I was trying to make is that Holy makes a huge difference in the speed of a run. It's not the 1-2 minutes that some people claim. In dungeons, enemies die significantly faster with it.

I both agree & disagree. Holy makes a huge difference, and that is 2 minutes. It makes a 15 minute run 13 minutes, which is a solid 15% faster. Healer AoE shouldn't underestimated, but it's still weaker than SMN

[LunarEmerald]

I both agree & disagree. Holy makes a huge difference, and that is 2 minutes. It makes a 15 minute run 13 minutes, which is a solid 15% faster. Healer AoE shouldn't underestimated, but it's still weaker than SMN

Sometimes you get a melee dps that is afraid of aoeing and even as summoners, things don't die as quickly as the should when we're the one doing all the aoe work.