Healers that don't want to DPS are like DPSes who refuse to move out of AoEs.

[Silverquick]

Aoe dps is a bit tricky though, especially in raids. For example in a9s, smn is especially good because they can aoe down the adds with minimal dps loss on the boss (just bane and deathflare), while blm must gimp their single target dps to aoe down the adds by using fire2/flare. Also there are times when you'd rather hold your cds while killing the adds. In short duration and without dps buffs, I'd say whm has pretty good aoe burst (idk how good it is compared to blm/smn without cds though).

Either way the WHM is at about 2K DPS, the SMN is at 4K...

That's a pretty stark difference... not to say WHMs can't DPS... but obviously they are far from the top eschelons.

[Vhailor]

I think a more productive thread would focus on why people are objecting to dealing damage as a healer, rather than the wrongheaded arguments they're erecting in their own defense (and, yes, the idea that 'healers should heal not deal damage' is a patently wrongheaded argument).

The true argument that people aren't really making very well is that healers face a unique penalty for pushing too hard: a wipe. It's visible, it slows everyone down, and the healer will almost always take the blame if they were contributing nukes before it happened. It might not be voiced, but the blame will be there nonetheless.

Tanks and DD don't face the same potential outcome. In the case of tanking, going all-out just strains your healer. If you go too far, the healer is blamed as often as the tank. DD? Same thing, and in a worst case you often get a Raise or the other three players can down the fight and avoid a true wipe.

So, as a result, plenty of healers don't feel comfortable nuking. They know they should as well as anyone - but they're adopting a hard-line stance against it because they're sick and tired of assessing at the beginning of every single PUG whether or not the other three people have brains in their heads and non-crap gear.

Are their stated reasons for not dealing damage wrong? Sure. Of course they are. Is there a real issue causing them to cling to these reasons? Yes. If you want to better the situation in your own small little way, try to empathize a bit with their very justified discomfort. Once these healers become comfortable, they'll start nuking - because this game isn't exactly challenging, and eventually they'll get bored without throwing nukes around. In the meantime, yelling at the forum crowd is just hardening the position of people standing on a moral soapbox.

[Faliandra]

Yeah I like totally believe you and stuff...

https://www.fflogs.com/rankings/13#metric=dps

I'm looking at the rankings here... and... errm there's no WHMs here in the top category... and it is showing their damage DPS...

You're either living in your own world... or... if your WHM side is out damaging your SMN side... then the likely culprit is yourself.

The SMNs are at about 4K DPS, the WHMs are at about 2K.

And there's more...

The highest AoE DPS order goes like this...

1. SMN
2. BLM and MNK (shockingly tied)

Now I'm not going to say WHMs can't do DPS... but to think they outdamage the rest of the pack is... well.... living in a fantasy world.

You are linking top AoE Dps of savage raids while I'm pretty sure LunarEmerald meant dungeon runs. (60/exp).

Cant really have my MP sucked dry by spamming Holy in savage raids...but I usually have plenty of time to recover my MP inbetween pulls in a dungeon.
And I'm telling you there are some pulls where hardly anyone can beat my AoE Dps. (Aero III -> Holy -> Swiftcast Holy -> Assize -> Continue Holy Spam...depending on the situation/overall dps/pull you can use Presence of Mind in the beginning as well for another +20% castspeed and ofc Shroud of Saints to sustain your MP...I keep those for the larger pulls).
My friend REALLY dishes out some serious dps as a SMN, he mains it, hes a beast. But on some pulls he simply CANT overtake me.
for example, If I end up in Baelsar's Wall and we are on this moving platform, I'll always ask BRD/MCH (if available) to refill my MP INBETWEEN pulls, cos my dps is BRUTAL there.
Some good BRDs/MCHs will generally do this inbetween pulls though. (Heck, I can even precast my Holy there before the mobs are attackable, because Holy doesnt need a target xD its glorious!)

WHMs usually dont finish first in overall DPS though, because we drop down during boss fights (although we can still sustain a pretty decent amount of dps there too).


So really, we are solely talking about the moment the AoEs hit the large packs, not about the overall dps you see in the end(which is what the parsers will show). We will never win that (unless the dps dont know what theyre doing at all...)

[riktir]

this post is bad and should be put down, from what im hearing from the OP is wah i can't hack its as dps , so i demand the healers to pick up my slack!!

[aleph_null]

Either way the WHM is at about 2K DPS, the SMN is at 4K...

That's a pretty stark difference... not to say WHMs can't DPS... but obviously they are far from the top eschelons.

Well the thing is that in raids probably 90% of the time you're focused on the boss (single target dps), so linking fflogs leaderboard for current raid tier is pretty off-topic here. And obviously with their cds and ogcd abilities casters would beat healers in terms of aoe dps. I'm just saying that in the case where they don't have offensive cds available, and the duration is short (like in dungeon pulls, you won't have raging on every pull), healers can be quite powerful too. I'd say without cds they're better than melees.

[Kanitezz]

Who carrrrrresssss as long as you clear the instance with little issues?! Holy hell! Whats a healer who goes out of their way to dps going to do? Make the fight 20 seconds shorter? As long they're doing what their role is there to do (hhheeeeaaallll) who carrrrrrrressss.
You a tank? Keep hate. You a dps? Take enemies down as fast as possible. Your healer's top priority is to keep your ass alive while you do YOUR job. So let them do THEIR job and you do YOUR job. Maybe your healer isn't comfortable with the situation maybe thats why they aint dpsing. Maybe they aren't comfortable with their abilities enough to dps. Be more accepting and open minded....ffs...

[Kaurie]

Funny you say that, because just moments ago, as my static and I finally downed A11S, aside from a Combust I managed to cast perhaps 3 times in that entire fight, and not even with Cleric Stance on, I spent the entirety of it performing my primary function as the main healer. I'd rather keep my party alive to DPS than possibly overdo it trying to prove a point or shoot for what's effectively "extra" damage. Granted, if you can heal do with with minimal impact to actually being a healer, go for it. Personally speaking, survival went up, and progression went further when I decided to focus on my core role.

While a nice story (congrats). This doesn't contradict the OP at all. To elaborate, you can also get your A11S clear with your DPS eating unnecessary AoE's.

[Silverquick]

You are linking top AoE Dps of savage raids while I'm pretty sure LunarEmerald meant dungeon runs. (60/exp).

Cant really have my MP sucked dry by spamming Holy in savage raids...but I usually have plenty of time to recover my MP inbetween pulls in a dungeon.
And I'm telling you there are some pulls where hardly anyone can beat my AoE Dps. (Aero III -> Holy -> Swiftcast Holy -> Assize -> Continue Holy Spam...depending on the situation/overall dps/pull you can use Presence of Mind in the beginning as well for another +20% castspeed and ofc Shroud of Saints to sustain your MP...I keep those for the larger pulls).
My friend REALLY dishes out some serious dps as a SMN, he mains it, hes a beast. But on some pulls he simply CANT overtake me.
for example, If I end up in Baelsar's Wall and we are on this moving platform, I'll always ask BRD/MCH (if available) to refill my MP
INBETWEEN pulls, cos my dps is BRUTAL there.
Some good BRDs/MCHs will generally do this inbetween pulls though. (Heck, I can even precast my Holy there before the mobs are attackable, because Holy doesnt need a target xD its glorious!)

WHMs usually dont finish first in overall DPS though, because we drop down during boss fights (although we can still sustain a pretty decent amount of dps there too).


So really, we are solely talking about the moment the AoEs hit the large packs, not about the overall dps you see in the end(which is what the parsers will show). We will never win that (unless the dps dont know what theyre doing at all...)

No actually... it that you can't see the DoT damage in your chat log...

At level 50 and ONLY an ILVL 70.... My DoTs are doing 360-370 AoE damage per tick when stacked... and that's before I step up and do Bliz 2 Spam adding another 110 damage per tick... and not even getting into the Pet damage.

Those upper end Summoners you see in the FFXLOG I posted like are level 60 and in ILVL 280.... so their DoTs are likely doing AoE ticks for a good 2000 or more per tick, before they even get into the spells, deathwyrm, and pet damage.

That's why their DPS is 4K while the WHM is only at 2K max. But hey... give it time I'll be there too... the WHM will not.

[Faliandra]

No actually... it that you can't see the DoT damage in your chat log...

At level 50 and ONLY an ILVL 70.... My DoTs are doing 360-370 AoE damage per tick when stacked... and that's before I step up and do Bliz 2 Spam adding another 110 damage per tick... and not even getting into the Pet damage.

Those upper end Summoners you see in the FFXLOG I posted like are level 60 and in ILVL 280.... so their DoTs are likely doing AoE ticks for a good 2000 or more per tick, before they even get into the spells, deathwyrm, and pet damage.

That's why their DPS is 4K while the WHM is only at 2K max. But hey... give it time I'll be there too... the WHM will not.

Wow, you have just successfully ignored everything I said, didnt you?
Did you even read what I wrote? I play SMN fairly well at 60 too, they CANNOT surpass a good WHM on *some* pulls if everyone is doing their job as intended (tank properly using CDs, both DPS doing good dps).
We are talking about CURRENT DPS DURING a pull, NOT overall DPS. Ofc it depends on many factors such as how much dps will the tank allow me to do or things like...Do I have all my CDs up, does the SMN have all his cds up? But there WILL be pulls when I'll be ahead, even ahead of SMNs.

It doesnt matter what your chat log says, there are parsers!

[Lexia]

Except that's not what I said. Read again.

You said without healer dps it would take 15-20 minutes longer to clear a dungeon, Most groups can clear dungeons in 30 minutes or less regardless if healer is dpsing. So 15-20 minutes longer would mean you spending 45+ minutes in a dungeon. I just don't buy that it going to add 20 minutes on to the run cause the healer not dpsing. Oh and that other post was more of a question then a statement which you seem to ignore.