Healers that don't want to DPS are like DPSes who refuse to move out of AoEs.

[Kit-Kat]

mobs dieing too fast can skrew over your mp starved drk tank, so not really a win for drk tanks. they need mob hits for blood price, and mobs alive other mp tools. More so with people trying to out pull the tank, or trigger happy with regen.

If you're using your entire mp bar on a single pull, either you're doing it wrong, or the dps are doing it wrong attacking different targets making you draw enmity on aoe more. Even if mobs die faster, blood price is still enough. Also, in case you didn't know, you can right click regen to remove it or tell your healer to stop casting regen right before a pull, sometimes you just carry it over from the last pull.

I didn't see the vid, but i can probable assume if the run was slow, it was the dps fault. And the blame going to the healer. Again content is not made, designed, or to be tackled with healer dps in mind.

It wasn't a slow run nor DPS fault. It's a video to show how much downtime a healer has of doing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING while your party is putting effort in the run. Here's the video: Link. Also you're wrong. Content is made counting healer dps, as they're actually strong and can contribute a really high portion of damage, they have to take into account this damage output for enrages and dps checks to make fights or else it would be easily cheesed. It's not designed for out of raid/primal fights, but we're talking about efficiency.

I'm honestly wondering how much people actually pay attention in dungeon runs. And how much is really being spent on netflix. I've never seen a non dps healer slow down a run, but i've seen dps slow runs down often.

You have to realize no one is blaming runs on being slow because healer is not dpsing. The discussion is about healers doing nothing when they don't have to heal while they could be putting effort like the rest of the party to make it all go better.

And what is being missed, is i never stated i am against healers dpsing. Just do so properly, aka not wait to use a big heal, and ya my g/f got told off a few times for not dpsing when people needed to be healed.

Thing is, you're not doing it properly nor efficient this way. Heals have fixed potencies, all you need to know is when to use them in the most efficient way so you're not either letting the tanks die nor overhealing, just timing it right, you know, knowing your class. And if your girlfriend really got told off for not dpsing when people needed to be healed, they're jerks and it's not the point of the argument.

threads like this should not exist as it is just an arbitrary standard not even promoted by the devs. If your runs are slow, its the dps fault.

Again, it's not about runs being slow, it's about effort and efficiency to make a dungeon better.

but just using that 1 big heal is lazy. Going out of your way to dps, is just as bad and just as lazy though.

How is using 1 big heal lazy which is efficiently used right, instead of standing still either doing nothing or uselessly overhealing when you could be contributing with dps instead? in fact, spamming cures when it's not needed is the lazy way.

That is what this thread about, people wanting to force healers to dps.

Wrong, people are getting out of their way to vent and derailing the main topic, which is contributing when you are able to, using your class kit instead of being lazy. Like I previously said, I wouldn't expect dps from a healer that is busy and actively healing because it's needed, and if someone does, well, that's their own personal issue. Defending healers for being lazy and do nothing is as bad as those people "enforcing" the dps meta. You're not playing your class correctly and you're being bebysat, you're frustrating other party members while they're putting effort in.

except in every dungeon run i've seen, and more so with my g/f. Her being 50%or less, most of the time is laziness for sake of dps. People who claim to "know how to play" in my experience don't Again no hate... just personal experiences. Should put 100% focus on on the group, and pay attention to everything. If your tank is under 50% hp and your doing it wrong. This is just my opinion.

Again, how is dpsing labeled as lazy when in fact what they're doing is playing the class properly? If a heal isn't instantly needed, they have the right tools to top a tanks hp right away with dps inbetween. If that is your definition of being lazy, oh boy.

Your job is to keep the groups hp up. attack if no one needs a cure, not arbitrarily make down time but not curing till last min.

Correct. Correct. Wrong. You can easily keep HP up while not casting, because heal over time exists, instant heal cooldowns exist. Instead of doing 4 spells that have the same effect as one, which allows you to multitask more, I'm repeating myself but you don't seem to get it, it's efficiency.
I was about to quote another of your posts talking about keeping tank at 90%, which is also on this same post and you can see the reply there. You're the one who doesn't know how the class works properly it seems. Like Taika perfectly said:

Absolutely nothing in this game requires you to keep your tank or other party members at 90% health apart from certain tank busters and big AoE hits in raids or extremes. You're pulling that number out of thin air and it's not based on anything but your imagination on how healers should be played in this game (which you don't even seem to have any personal experience from).

And people need to stop being so entitled selfish individuals. When you join a dungeon "to chill and have fun and play the way you want", you're joining other people aswell, not with some NPCs. You're not wrong for doing so, you're just incosiderate and people is expressing that. Then comes the tears when they're kicked.

/Wall of text.

[SeriousxSarcasm]

And? They do damage? Yes. Mobs die? Die. Who say that they need to improve? I am sure they like their play style and feel themselves comfortable.

Also, one day ago I saw summoner who did not use aetherflow and bane, energy drain, etc. He only spammed ruin on one target... Could I blame him? Of course not. We still beat the dungeon. Who cares that we spent 40 minutes on this duty. Healer was not DPSing too, of course.

Why not? :/ You could and should blame them. :P Why do they get the free pass? DPS is their main job, \o/ Their only job really. Instead of whining at the healer/tank, people need to get on their case more. You see it all, NIN that mostly auto-attack and just mash random skills, BLM that spam thunder and sleep spells with no regard to any rotation. :S Also SMNs that put up DoTs and just let the pet do the rest on auto. -_-;

(I sincerely hope you're being sarcastic, but I've spoken with enough people in forums to not make assumptions anymore).

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

Snip.

A big reason this game has so many bad/lazy dps in particular is predominantly because they know that any slack they have will be picked up by the healer 95% of the time, and even if things die slow, the first person to get blamed is the healer. As a dps it's admittedly very demotivating to see the healers dpsing since then I pretty much have no reason to be there. XD Admittedly it's why I've swapped to tank, I can mitigate, stance dance and care about my damage without feeling like a useless third wheel. After all, no one cares what the actual dps do, right? Even if one of them does very well, the healer using macros is gonna get credit instead.

[Welsper59]

For every healer that outright refuses to DPS, I've seen at least 3 "healers" that refuse to heal (or they just suck at timing). I'd take the former healer types over the latter any time. Hell, they'll sometimes ridicule the other healer(s), including any clearly minimal geared/new ones for not keeping them alive and/or not DPSing (since they can't because they're solo healing and sometimes undergeared).

There was even a couple occasions where that type of healer would call out the other healer for not doing their job because they didn't do as much DPS. That mouthbreather type of player tends to be found in a 24-man raids or even PvP on rare occasions. Granted however, it was pretty rare to find the "refuse to DPS" sorts when I played a lot, outside of leveling instances. The mentality of DPSing in general is like a necessary cancer for this game and many of the player base lol. It's unfortunate that that's the only depth people can really grab on to (not necessarily their fault, admittedly).

[Kit-Kat]

A big reason this game has so many bad/lazy dps in particular is predominantly because they know that any slack they have will be picked up by the healer 95% of the time, and even if things die slow, the first person to get blamed is the healer. As a dps it's admittedly very demotivating to see the healers dpsing since then I pretty much have no reason to be there. XD Admittedly it's why I've swapped to tank, I can mitigate, stance dance and care about my damage without feeling like a useless third wheel. After all, no one cares what the actual dps do, right? Even if one of them does very well, the healer using macros is gonna get credit instead.

A big reason this game has so many bad/lazy dps (or any role actually) in particular is predominatly because they're whiteknighted for being bad or not playing their class properly, nor caring to improve, getting babysat by the rest of the party. They're praised for playing in their own 'style' with a pat on the back while affecting others. I do encourage you have fun when you play, be it the way it might be, but please, this is not an offline game and you're not queueing alone. I don't know if this is just me or really a minority here, but our playerbase is too selfcentered with the me me me attitude. That feeling when you give your best but someone is like "meh, why would I, someone else will put the effort for me instead".

Also, a healer dpsing isn't taking your job, it's helping you with it since they actually can do both. If a BLM/SMN heal was as strong as a healer class spell, you could see them supporting the healers if needed, but the 500 heal vs 5k heal is nowhere nearly helpful at all. On the other hand, a healer's DPS is really strong and high enough to contribute to damage. Not nuke dps, but constant dps.

[VeliusVire]

Why is this even a discussion? The data doesn't lie. Healers who perform their primary role, keeping the party alive, and DPS'ing to make the run quicker, are objectively better at their job than those who don't, it's as simple as that. Opinions don't mean anything in the face of facts, so it's time to stop playing victim and admit to yourself: If I don't do more than my primary role, then I am not pro-efficient at my role. And that's fine if you're clearing the content, more power to you, but please don't go around parading as if that play-style is just as good as the legitimately optimal style, this is getting ridiculous.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

Snip.

Nah, it's pretty decidedly taking away the dps' only job, because then suddenly they don't have to be as competent/put up as high numbers to clear the fight anymore. People can slack off, put in less effort, and still clear the fight with ease even if they aren't going at Max because someone else is going to pick up the slack. If my contribution isn't needed anymore, why should I make an effort when someone else is just gonna do it instead? There's no need to perform at my best.

As for the blm helping heal, healers would just whine about having someone else do their job even if they need the help and the heals were actually useful/helpful.

[Nirokun]

If I see a healer standing there idle between heals, I feel bad for them, because it must be boring. I will stand in AoE so they can enjoy the game, too. If I'm too good at my job and shorten the encounters, they get less healing time, which is what these players want, they just want to heal.

I invite everyone to stand in more AoEs so that these heal-only healers have more fun!

[VeliusVire]

Nah, it's pretty decidedly taking away the dps' only job, because then suddenly they don't have to be as competent/put up as high numbers to clear the fight anymore. People can slack off, put in less effort, and still clear the fight with ease even if they aren't going at Max because someone else is going to pick up the slack. If my contribution isn't needed anymore, why should I make an effort when someone else is just gonna do it instead? There's no need to perform at my best.

So, you essentially want Tanks and Healers to half-ass their own Roles just because DPS, who already half-ass, feel like their job isn't required? I'm sorry, but if YOU are playing lazily, that has nothing to do with me, because your point might've had weight if, you know, DPS haven't been as bad as they are since 2.0.

[aleph_null]

Nah, it's pretty decidedly taking away the dps' only job, because then suddenly they don't have to be as competent/put up as high numbers to clear the fight anymore. People can slack off, put in less effort, and still clear the fight with ease even if they aren't going at Max because someone else is going to pick up the slack. If my contribution isn't needed anymore, why should I make an effort when someone else is just gonna do it instead? There's no need to perform at my best.

Eh that argument is probably as stupid as something like "my husband/wife makes more money than I do and it's enough to keep us alive so I should quit my job."