OK, now I'm worried (in regards to AST buffs)

[CafPow]

yeah right, correct, but you will still be able to drag em in your Toolbar right?
so ... you ... kinda lose nothing ... or not?

[Reiryuu]

yeah right, correct, but you will still be able to drag em in your Toolbar right?
so ... you ... kinda lose nothing ... or not?

You're missing the point. Each job gains skills as they level, yes? Protect comes at 8, Cleric stance at 4. If those go into the "Healer Role" skill pool, The conjurer job no longer gains abilities at 4 and 8 that are unique to it like Arcanist(SCH) would (AST technically would to, but since it starts at 30 it's not as obvious and the first dungeon is 15 for level synching.) Thus Conjurer/WHM would need abilities that are unique to it to fill in the gaps.

[Valmaxian]

Assize COULD be the best spell in the game.
It's good for DPS but that's all. It can't be relied on as a aoe insta heal because you need it for your abysmal MP restoration. Speaking of that, 10% of your MP restored is crazy low. To top it off, it's on CD way too long of a CD to be used strategically. Kinda like Benediction.

The concept is very good though. A heal that also acts as a DPS nuke. It's something I hope we see on WHM more often.

I hear you, and I agree. Honestly, I'd love to see WHM be able to really utilize its full DPS potential, and lowering the CD on Assize, extending SoS, and decreasing mp costs (or adding mp-generating passives) would be great to start with. I just don't want people to get out their torches and pitchforks just yet!

[CafPow]

You're missing the point. Each job gains skills as they level, yes? Protect comes at 8, Cleric stance at 4. If those go into the "Healer Role" skill pool, The conjurer job no longer gains abilities at 4 and 8 that are unique to it like Arcanist(SCH) would (AST technically would to, but since it starts at 30 it's not as obvious and the first dungeon is 15 for level synching.) Thus Conjurer/WHM would need abilities that are unique to it to fill in the gaps.

hmm i see your point. Well, why not. Should be a good chance to implement something that pushes WHM a bit.

[loreleidiangelo]

Just putting this (back) on the table: we still need to draw those OP Balance cards that have everyone in uproar. They don't grow on trees. I understand that it's caused AST to be absolutely bonkers when those flashy orange cards do pop up, but during those encounters when I don't draw well, I'd much rather have a more reliable ability. Like Assize. The best spell in the game.

36% chance to Draw every 30 seconds is pretty high, IMO. There's rarely an encounter where I don't have multiple AOE Balances rolling on the party (8-man content, of course).

[Valmaxian]

36% chance to Draw every 30 seconds is pretty high, IMO. There's rarely an encounter where I don't have multiple AOE Balances rolling on the party (8-man content, of course).

The probability is pretty high, but is still completely rng. There have been fights where I get all teh Balances, and other fights when I don't get any. My point is that people are assuming that AST is going to draw those Balances, and their arguments are much more valid if that were always true, which it isn't. If the AST draws well, yes, I'd rather have them in my party. If they draw poorly, give me the WHM please. Just my preference.

[Minizomb]

I personally don't play white mage my main is an Astro, but I like partnering with a white mage over a scholar anyday. I don't think it's fair to judge each healer against another when it is different play styles but white mages could do with a few upgrades.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

why would you think WHM loses CS / Protect?
it's just available for all, also for WHM...

Because these skills are essential for all healers. They're making all cross class skills that are considered essential for all classes obtainable from the new cross role system.

This of course. Means some jobs are going to be losing quite a few abilities. WHM alone will be losing protect, cleric stance and Stoneskin.

AST will lose nothing. SCH may lose supervirus.

[loreleidiangelo]

The probability is pretty high, but is still completely rng. There have been fights where I get all teh Balances, and other fights when I don't get any. My point is that people are assuming that AST is going to draw those Balances, and their arguments are much more valid if that were always true, which it isn't. If the AST draws well, yes, I'd rather have them in my party. If they draw poorly, give me the WHM please. Just my preference.

In a 10-minute encounter, on a statistical average, an AST will be able to AOE something like 5 Balances (taking into account the RNG involved in getting Spire/Ewer to Royal Road as well). Not accounting for Time Dilation or Celestial Opposition, that still means there's 2.5 minutes out of a 10-minute encounter where the group is doing 10% more damage. Nothing that WHM brings and heck, nothing that SCH brings can really comparatively come close - not SCH's global-efficient MP-efficient practical DPS, nor WHM's supposedly "superior" healing which has actually been largely debunked as a myth when compared to Diurnal Astrologian MP costs versus spell potencies.

Your argument basically boils down to, "but what if I'm unlucky enough to basically be a statistical impossibility?" and that's not something the developers should be balancing around. The odds of you not drawing ANY Balance cards at all in a typical raid encounter are so small as to be practically impossible. The odds of not being able to draw Balances and successfully AOE them are a little higher, but nowhere close to anything that would actually occur in an encounter on a regular basis. We're talking odds in the thousandths here. That is why people are talking about Balance - because it does happen, it is happening, FFLogs is showing us what happens when Balance happens and it's not a good thing, no matter how much ASTs want to stubbornly cling to it as their "identity".

Even an AST prepping a single AOE Balance at the start of an encounter is more than anything WHM brings to the table ATM. You don't see where this is troubling?

[Valmaxian]

That is why people are talking about Balance - because it does happen, it is happening, FFLogs is showing us what happens when Balance happens and it's not a good thing, no matter how much ASTs want to stubbornly cling to it as their "identity".

Even an AST prepping a single AOE Balance at the start of an encounter is more than anything WHM brings to the table ATM. You don't see where this is troubling?

I appreciate your analysis, I do see where you're coming from. I'd argue that our buffs really are our identity, but agree that they should be fairly balanced. I think that a lot of the AST sensitivity comes from the fact that after a weak start for our class, many of us finally feel not only viable, but really desirable after 3.4. Personally, I'd like to see a solution that fine-tunes the card percentages/effects to make draws other than Balance more desirable, and that ALSO addresses current WHM deficiencies.