Korean fan fest translation says ast changes balanced healers, do you agree?

[loreleidiangelo]

Sure, balance is a two way street, but not when the majority (AST and SCH) are just fine where they're at. It's more trouble to bring everyone down to the lowest common denominator, rather than bring up the "weakest" healer so that it is competitive.

Are you not familiar with the concept of "power creep"? At what point does everyone get super mondo mega ultra DPS buffs and ultimate hyper super special final limit skills to the point where bosses are melting unless the devs arbitrarily increase mob health pools?

I get it, I am an AST main too, since 3.0 no less. I get that you don't want to be dumpstered again, but you'd think that would give you a bit of empathy towards the WHMs that are in the same boat currently. In truth, I don't disagree with your main premise - I'd rather AST/SCH be a riskier comp with superior DPS payoff and WHM/other healer be the safer option with less wiping and steadier progression, but the solution isn't quite that simple either and I know it. If something isn't done about Balance specifically, groups still won't take a WHM, they'll just bicker and rag over their SCH and AST's healing performance because they'd rather wipe to failed heal checks or inability to recover derped mechanics than lose that insane utility. Orrrrrr, if an AST/SCH can't carry the load they'll just AST/WHM for broken Balance cards WITH a WHM's awesome raid healing, and SCH gets to taste the bench for 4.0.

Then it becomes, "well SCH just needs to be brought up to those two" and the creep continues.

[Vulcwen]

Power creep from the damage side isn't that much of an issue, HP pools are balanced around what players can actually put out, not based on a standard formula that stays the same for years (cough). RNG-creep can be an issue however, being that DPS output becoming more and more reliant on what the RNG decides rather than player skill. Power creep in healing potency definitely is an issue, as every boost in healing means healers will spend less of their time actually healing.

[Kerrigen]

I have a feeling that if this tier was Midas (instead of being a tier that has fights where both your healers can die at the 25% mark and you can still clear just fine) and The Balance wasn't the horribly broken skill it has become, people wouldn't be having this conversation about Broken AST vs Poor WHM. WHM is a strong job that has the misfortune of not bringing any rDPS to the table in a tier where most of its strengths are overkill.

Right now, you want The Balance and you want Eos in your party, because when nothing matters damage wise you might as well do some work with DPS.

[Cyrocco]

Power creep isn't necessarily a problem given that we're trying to make WHM equal to AST and SCH, nerfing everything to shit isn't going to help, all it's going to do is bring AST back down to the mess we had in 3.0 where literally no one was willing to run with it. I think a slight power creep would be acceptable if it ultimately makes White Mage a more enjoyable class. I think everyone can agree that the problem does not lie in AST, it lies in the lack of definition in WHM's abilities.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

. I think everyone can agree that the problem does not lie in AST, it lies in the lack of definition in WHM's abilities.

I partially agree with this. It's both sides, honestly. WHM is lacking in too much and doesn't have a identity to hold on to, while AST is simply too well rounded. They literally buffed every single fault they had, until they were simply perfect.

In order for there to be balance, a job needs a good side and a bad side.

For SCH, it's the lack of reliable burst healing.
For WHM, it's their low MP and lack of mitigation.
AST has no faults. They'll have to consider what AST should be exceptional at and where it should be weaker before healers can really start heading towards balance.

[Fernosaur]

I have a feeling that if this tier was Midas (instead of being a tier that has fights where both your healers can die at the 25% mark and you can still clear just fine) and The Balance wasn't the horribly broken skill it has become, people wouldn't be having this conversation about Broken AST vs Poor WHM. WHM is a strong job that has the misfortune of not bringing any rDPS to the table in a tier where most of its strengths are overkill.

Right now, you want The Balance and you want Eos in your party, because when nothing matters damage wise you might as well do some work with DPS.

Agree on both. We need more hardcore healing checks, and we need less Balance and a stronger Spear and Arrow.

AST has no faults. They'll have to consider what AST should be exceptional at and where it should be weaker before healers can really start heading towards balance.

Imo AST shouldn't have the on-demand healing power it currently has, since it has ridic strong buffing abilities for the party. It's already slightly lacking in the AoE burst healing department, so I think the nerfs should go down that road instead of bringing the cards down too much. Make it so AST+SCH has to work extra hard for those tough healing checks and I think it would be pretty balanced among the three roles.

That still wouldn't solve the issue of NoctAST, but I've been saying for a while that AST should be able to switch stances in battle while having other resources nerfed or making their more powerful healing gated behind CDs.

[Yuyuka3]

Power creep isn't necessarily a problem given that we're trying to make WHM equal to AST and SCH, nerfing everything to shit isn't going to help, all it's going to do is bring AST back down to the mess we had in 3.0 where literally no one was willing to run with it. I think a slight power creep would be acceptable if it ultimately makes White Mage a more enjoyable class. I think everyone can agree that the problem does not lie in AST, it lies in the lack of definition in WHM's abilities.

1. Who talked about 'nerfing everything to shit' and reverting AST to its 3.0 iteration? All that was said was that at times, nerfs are necessary and shouldn't be ruled out from the get go.
2. WHM already is enjoyable for people who like the class. It not being enjoyable isn't the problem here. Stop assuming everyone feels about the class as you do, please.
3. Well, technically the problem does lie in AST, since AST is the newest of the three healers and almost a perfect copy of WHM with horribly broken buffs slapped on. Just accept that Balance can't stay like this already, for gods sake.

Also, I agree with Tonberry and Fernosaur, AST simply has no weakness which is a terrible thing for balance. Also, I kinda like the idea of strong heals gated behind hefty CD's in exchange for stance switching... it got something.

[Cyrocco]

-snip-

If you're okay with how WHM is now, and you'd rather nerf others instead of give WHM an actual identity (something MANY of the people arguing with me on this forum agree with), then you're exactly why I'm arguing so hard.

"Let's nerf everyone else until WHM is special again." instead of "Let's give White Mage something special."

[Yuyuka3]

snip

How about reading? I did not, at ANY time, say AST should be nerfed so hard that it is barely usable anymore. I only said that SOME PARTS, namely Balance, needs to be toned down a bit because the skill is totally OP, something basically everyone here except YOU agrees on with me. I am very much for giving WHM an identity of it's own, by giving it something besides healing to set it apart from the other two healers. Sorry, but this discussion is over if you just ignore everything I say and put words in my mouth. Get down your high horse already.

[Ghishlain]

If you're okay with how WHM is now, and you'd rather nerf others instead of give WHM an actual identity (something MANY of the people arguing with me on this forum agree with), then you're exactly why I'm arguing so hard.

"Let's nerf everyone else until WHM is special again." instead of "Let's give White Mage something special."

The flaw in your logic is you're acting like balancing is black and white. It's either buff everything until they're balanced or nerf everything until they're balanced. However if we buffed everyone to the point where they can add significant DPS while maintain party health with little maintenance - well.. what's the point then?

Again, it's important to balance things in a suitable way which means probably taking a few things away from AST and SCH and giving a few things to WHM. However, we won't know exactly what will happen until we see (1) what the cross-role skill selection will actually entail and (2) what the new skills and/or traits are introduced to the journey to 70. No nerfs may be necessary pending on how S-E (1) designs the new skills and (2) designs the fights.

With that being said, my personal opinion is that I have very little faith in the S-E development team ATM when balancing healers. To me they dropped the AST-balance-file exceedingly hard when they decided it was important to give Luminious Aether an increased duration with no reduction to the MP gain / tick and dropped even harder when they overbuffed the hell out of Balance, effectively (and ironically) making it the most unbalanced tool in the healer repertoire at this time..

I guess time will tell but my expectations regarding healer balance is fairly low at this juncture.