Got kicked from The Aetherochemical Research Facility by mentor

[LalaRu]

...You're part of the team and are expected to perform at the highest level...

On DF?

[LalafellDown]

On DF?

Of course, why wouldn't you do your best? You have 3 other people with you, consider what they would want. No matter what team it is, you always want to perform at your best for the sake of others. Just because its DF doesn't mean you should slack off.

[DarkB]

The only problem and the cause of all these kind of behaviour is just one, Square enix, not players being a*holes.
You are a victim of the System Square Enix put in place to turn a fun videogame experience into a repetitive boring and frustrating pattern to grind stuff.

It is simple, it is like when you use teaser to teach dogs to be aggressive. In the long run they start biting. Here is the same, SE ruined this game removing the fun part and forcing people to spam and grind into a loop, where there is no fun anymore, so eventually people wants to complete this boredoom fest as fast as they can, hence why they turned to be a*holes against anything that slows them down.

Change game, cause nothing will change.

[Kallera]

I have to agree with the op, the Tank should not have been kicked for this.

The mentor is there to help new players, and their objective is to see that new player clear the instance. Speed is not and should not, be a factor, that only comes with repeating the instance and knowing what to expect. the same with a new healer or a new dps.

If the tank does not know what dangers and mobs are ahead, how can they expect that going in blindly will go well?

The only problem and the cause of all these kind of behaviour is just one, Square enix, not players being a*holes.
You are a victim of the System Square Enix put in place to turn a fun videogame experience into a repetitive boring and frustrating pattern to grind stuff.

It is simple, it is like when you use teaser to teach dogs to be aggressive. In the long run they start biting. Here is the same, SE ruined this game removing the fun part and forcing people to spam and grind into a loop, where there is no fun anymore, so eventually people wants to complete this boredoom fest as fast as they can, hence why they turned to be a*holes against anything that slows them down.

Change game, cause nothing will change.

ironically the mentor system was put in place to help assist new players before beong run over by the speedrun happy masses(who, yes, are a product of the game's design). When the mentors themselves start kicking the newbies for not knowing an instance inside and out, what point is there to have it?

[Evumeimei]

But comon, like giving a try to what your party member will be bad.
As i already said i won't blame if we wipe and come back to little pulls, at least you tried to please your party members, that's the social part of an MMO...

I can totally see how that ends... With them being kicked for causing a wipe (maybe you wouldn't but I bet other people would). >__>

I go at whatever pace the tank / party decides, mostly because I really don't care lol. As a healer I can adjust to whatever is needed in the dungeon (picking up slack DPS, more intensive healing, etc...).

[saber_alter]

Of course, why wouldn't you do your best? You have 3 other people with you, consider what they would want. No matter what team it is, you always want to perform at your best for the sake of others. Just because its DF doesn't mean you should slack off.

DF has always been a mixed bag, it is going to be a mixed bag, and it always will be a mixed bag. Expecting otherwise is simply misguided, and if you want an optimized group: you should form your own. Also, just because someone is going slowly doesn't mean they are slacking off. Laziness is but a single factor in a sea of possibilities.

The example that OP stated was a bunch of players being self-serving assholes, that probably caused them all to re-queue because they couldn't bother to be considerate to someone who clearly was trying to figure something out. (frankly I'm appaled by the actions in question. it would literally have taken them less time to readjust to the fresh tank than it would to kick and re-queue.) That mentor was blatantly doing the opposite of what the system was intended, but that's more so a flaw of the system it's qualifying critera is laughably simple.

[Callinon]

Of course, why wouldn't you do your best? You have 3 other people with you, consider what they would want. No matter what team it is, you always want to perform at your best for the sake of others. Just because its DF doesn't mean you should slack off.

The problem here seems to be that the person's best wasn't up to everyone else's standards. And that's the problem when you start making value judgments on other people's play.

If a tank isn't comfortable with large pulls for whatever reason, then they shouldn't do them. Their "best" in this case is to complete the dungeon safely if not necessarily as quickly as it could have been.

If you aren't willing to accept random results, don't party with random people.

[Ama_Hamada]

The other 2 players seemed to agree with the mentors vote kick. So I don't see whats the problem. You also have to consider the other players with you. You're part of the team and are expected to perform at the highest level. There is no "my needs," you're new, so what. How many dungeons have you done before The Aetherochemical Research Facility? They all play out the same. Since you were a tank I'm guessing someone was healing and they mostly had no problems healing you. If the teams tells you to pull more then do it.

It takes one person to say yes, not two.. also there is the follower effect. Sometimes people just follow the person that is first being outspoken. If one of the 2 people want faster runs then one will agree with it, just because people want things easy.

It reminds me of the deep runs my friend had to deal with. They would rather sit at the portal while she struggles and dies as she goes to find all the silvers and uncover the map because they call this speed running. Then I have to question why people are willing to do that when they gotta know they are risking a vote kick. So that's another 15 mins of gaining nothing, wasted time, just because my friend does not want to speed run and kick them for not participating.

No you are not entitled to everyone to knowing the game completely with the ability to speed run. You should not kick people just because they cannot speed run for whatever reason. This is part of the reason I find PvE more toxic then PvP and confused as heck why they took actions in PvP to fight toxicity and not PvE ( like making stricter gear checks so people are not entering with crafting gear. .... or MPKing people, causing wipes, vote abandon...)

The only thing you should expect is people TRYING their best and clearly this Op was doing just that.

[Claviusnex]

My feeling is folks signing up via DF need to be accepting of the fact not everyone will be at the same skill level. This means the pace will need to be at whatever the tank, healer or DPS can handle. If it is the tank's first few times my feeling is they should pull whatever they are comfortable with. Likewise an experienced tank should be able to get a feel for what the DPS and healer can handle and adjust pulls accordingly. That being said sometimes things won't work and my preference here is to just abandon the run rather than call out one person who might not be the real reason for the failures. If I want speed runs for something like ARF I will use PF where the performance expectations can be higher and the players can be filtered to some degree before being allowed in the group.

[Stanazolol]

I never kick anybody unless its physically impossible to complete the task with them present. DF is a pug, its not meant to be a premade power faceroll group. Its infested with mediocrity, but thats the way its supposed to be.

That being said, there's no excuse for how absurdly bad some of these level 60s are, and I can't really blame someone for kicking them. Not even knowing your rotation even half assed is inexcusable at level cap.